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To: Claud
I don't need to read the church fathers on this. Their writing are not inspired and are prone to error. The only writings that are pure and undefiled are the scriptures-and this according to the Catholic Church.

There is ABSOLUTELY no scriptural evidence to even hint that people are to pray to Mary, let alone worship her. Why don't you worship Moses? Or Ruth? Or Esther? Or Abraham? Catholics may try to dream up reasons that they should pray to dead people and worship them, but in the end it is nothing more than idolatry. It is no different than worshiping Buddha or praying to Muhammad.

Anything that takes away glory from the Son is pure evil and blasphemous regardless of where it is coming from.

As far as "free will", there is only God's will and man's will. God's will is good and perfect. Man's will is bad and defiled. Man cannot do God's will unless God empowers him to do His will. This isn't rocket science but it sure seems to be hard for people to understand this.

82 posted on 11/19/2010 2:34:51 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

I am not citing the Fathers as any kind of infallible witness. I am citing them as historical evidence of *what the Church believed*...just like we would cite the Federalist Papers to illustrate what the Founding Fathers believed.

Look, at this point we’re just being drawn into typical Catholic/Protestant debate points. If you’re interested in the topic at hand of Mary’s presence in the Eucharist, then I’ll continue the discussion. Otherwise, bogging ourselves down into a debate swamp isn’t going to be terribly profitable for anyone.


85 posted on 11/20/2010 6:31:11 AM PST by Claud
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