Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
It is interesting that the same people who criticise those who give a selective presentation of the facts in one instance will use a selection presentation for their own purposes in another.
Well, it is real easy to get our focus on pleasing others instead of God, but truly, we’re the ones who choose to do it, no one makes us. Today our churches are full of unbelievers. The tares are even in the pulpit teaching false doctrine and blindly leading others. The only way to know the difference between the false and the true is to know the Word of God
However i have found that the majority of the people at that time just studied the scriptures as guided by the pastor and took his meaning as gospel they did not really read the scriptures for them selves.
We would take turns reading scripture, if we did not know what a word meant or could not even pronounce it, no big deal.
I think if i was in charge of a Bible study i would sub jest some homework, for some of these words that you suspect is not understood, in other words have them read the Bible and find out what they mean.
I am sure much of this does not have any thing to do with faith, but teaching false doctrine is not good works either.
As i was leaving church one day the preacher came up to me and said, my boy when are you going to get rid of those bad habits?
I thought gee whiz, how could he know about my weakness for the opposite sex, but i jokingly said, what bad habits? he replied, smoking of course.
Yeah right, hear i was you might say in a straight jacket over pretty women and the only sin to him was smoking.
Well here i am going on 75 and i still enjoy smoking, and i still like pretty women, however i have improved some what on that point so i don,t really know if i would enjoy them or not, I am not meaning this to be a boast as it may sound.
One of Gods commandments is, thou shall not lie.
May God be with you also.
I got to be Emma Hale in a mormon Christmas program once.
You offered the following from Revelations:
Rev. 22: 16 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
But prior to that passage, you offered another assignment for the identity:
Isa 14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Because you are a devout Mormon, I will take your post to be an effort to defend the notion that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, designated in your quoted passages as 'morning stars' who sang together as the sons of god shouted for joy. Then you compound the confusion by stating, "Lucifer was one of the sons of God." So, Resty, was this Lucifer to whom you refer one of the morning stars, or was this Lucifer one of the sons of god? I hope you see the duplicitous nature of your post, because if you actually believe you have made some profound discovery which supports the Mormonism heresies that Jesus and Lucifer were/are brothers, then you are about to be very disappointed. Here's why: The passage from Isaiah 14 as it existed from around 600 BC to the fourth century when St. Jerome translated the Septuagint into Latin, producing the Latin Vulgate edition, did not have the name Lucifer in it. It could not have since 'Lucifer' is a Latin name and Latin didn't even exist in Isaiah's day.
Additionally, if you read the passage in Isaiah and read the preceding chapter and subsequent verse from where you lifted your supposed proof text, you will perhaps understand that Isaiah was referring to a Babylonian king who had been vexing the Israelites, a man who strutted his stuff in shining raiment before the palace denizens. It is this king whom Isaiah refers to as fallen from his self-appointed lofty perch.
And finally, if you choose to cite Revelations 22:16, and we would presume that you meant for that to refer to Jesus not your 'Lucifer', then what do you make of the designation in Isaiah which you quoted as handed down int he King James edition, since you have asserted that Lucifer is a son of god? I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but you have sown confusion and assumed facts not in evidence. Thus you are trying to teach error.
Your Joseph Smith supposedly offered a direct quote from Isaiah of 600BC writing, as uttered from the mouth of one of Smith's imaginary Nephites referring to Hebrew scripture. Of course Smith was merely quoting from the King James Bible where the name designation made by Jerome int he fourth century used a Latin name to refer to the description Isaiah was giving of the fallen Babylonian king who presumed to make of himself more than he was by dressing himself in clothes that would reflect huge amounts of light, making his appear to shine, glisten, radiate light.
This same erroneous designation of Lucifer (name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre) is found in Smith's imaginative Pearl of Greta Price and the Doctrines and Covenants.
Resty, your trying to assert that an imaginary being is a brother to Word made flesh Who dwelt among us. But it is not surprising, once the methodology and faulty doctrines of Mormonism are understood. I pray someday you awaken to the Truth that your self-proclaimed prophet, Joseph Smith, fabricated a great lie and piled upon that great lie a myriad of follow-up lies to support his imaginings, which lies have lead you astray but from which you finally escaped.
>I am sure much of this does not have any thing to do with faith, but teaching false doctrine is not good works either.<
It has everything to do with faith, the BUILDING UP of your faith in the TRUTH!
Ah, yes, smoking...two Scriptures helped me greatly in that area, which I memorized at the time (many years ago):
1 Corinthians 10:31, Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
—I had to admit that my smoking didn’t glorify the Lord.
1 Corinthians 6:19, Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
—The verse is in the context of immorality (see v. 18), but my spirit understood that it applied to all things that I did, since His Spirit is living inside of me. I knew the smoking was detrimental to my body, which belongs to Him.
It was pretty hard, as I started out mostly doing it “in the flesh,” albeit I was praying and reminding myself of the Scriptures and was helped by them, as I cut down the number of cigarettes. I really wanted to quit and just couldn’t seem to. Finally, I was so frustrated at my many starts and failures, I cried out to the Lord to give me a real HATRED of the habit. [I hated smelling like smoke,I hated all the holes I burned in my clothes, I hated the way I felt in the morning, and I hated the fact that I allowed myself to be controlled by it, but I didn’t hate the actual doing of it.]
And praise the Lord, He did it, He set me free!
Rev. 22: 16 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Resty, are you trying to sow confusion or do you really want to know how to reconcile the confusion in your post?...
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The only confusion around here is how you can spin and twist anothers words!
Maybe you are uncomfortable with
Job 38
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Are you denying the Morning stars sang togethner?
Thanks,
I’ve started attending a Bible believing, Bible teaching non-denominational church. Also meet with an assoc. Pastor during the week to get some one on one Bible instruction.
FRegards,
SZ
Yup. Jesus being the "savior" is just a lucky accident of birth order. It really could have been any one of us. Well, any *man*.
Who are you talking to????
Fantastic!
BTW, enjoyed your home page...my brother served in Desert Storm too, as jet mechanic, now retired & living in Albuquerque.
Very well said Turk.
Resty, pay attention. You have a right to believe as you wish. We (Christians) will never stop fighting for the truth.
Paul taught:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
In turn the Apostles chose men like Timothy, Timothy chose Bishops and deacons, these were all to be men and women of good works.
Would any one want the church to be run by people with out good works?
Was every one chosen to be a bishop or deacon or any kind of worker in the church? no, they had to be people of good works.
There were also other qualifications.
Tim ch 5, v 9,10
Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,
Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children,
if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
People with out these qualifications was not to be in the church, they were not to be members, bodily speaking.
Titus ch 5,thu 8
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
The apostles were not so naive that they thought they could tell the whole world what works they should do and what they should not do, but they had authority over the church and they said who was to be members and who should not be members of the church body.
It was their job to preach the gospel to all the world, not to make every one church members, and they have done it.
Now its up to each one of us and God, Only God knows our hearts.
While I agree with the premis of you post I would suggest that the passage in Isaiah is in fact talking about Lucifer (Satan or whatever name you would prefer ascribe). Keep in mind that many times in Scripture the “kings” coming against the people of Israel are referred to as being controlled by Lucifer and the text is actually referring to the entity (Lucifer) who controls or influences that king.
And that's "how to get to heaven". By believing.
I know. It seems too easy. But I'm telling you, it is hard, hard, hard. Took me almost 50 years to let all that religious junk go and shed my pride.
My statement was tongue and cheek towards the anti Mormons here who are always trashing my faith...
I am Mormon we are Christians no matter how you try to marginalized us.
Fixed for us all.
All we have to do is be absolutely perfect. Oh wait, nobody can! Oh noes!
It isn’t about trashing the Mormon faith...it’s about revealing truth and exposing falsehoods.... Some would make it more complicated than it is by playing “victim”...the very thing the Mormon church consistantly encourages it’s members to do...a deception used to ‘escape’ the truth when all arguements made by Mormons fail.
Works are fruit. You can tell a dead tree by the lack of fruit.
We will all be judged Stourme, every single one of us, believers or not. Every hidden dirty ugly thing we ever did will be exposed and laid out.
The only question is, do you want to be judged on your own merits, or have Jesus cover for you?
Someone has to die as payment for your sin. If you don't beleive and allow Jesus to take the rap for you, there's only one other choice - you. Forever. Because you are not God's Son and you will not rise again.
I don't know about you, but I'm not looking forward to judgement. However, I have accepted the offer God made to me to let Jesus take my punishment. This blows me away!!!! Why me????
And around we go....
Well I testify that the real Jesus Christthe only begotten Son of Heavenly Father is the head of the His Church which I belong too...
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints!
Absolutely none of the verses you posted counter what the bible says. Angels and humans are not the same species, not the same ontologically, nor are they the same creation.
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