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To: boatbums

And, finally, do you say, credo: in One Holy and Apostolic Church?

If so, what does it mean to you? What did it mean when it was decided in Council?


6,821 posted on 01/07/2011 12:25:04 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
Yes, you’ve nailed it. Our definitions of Church are very different.

The primary diference in this context is the Church is given authority by Christ.

Not the individual member, but the Apostolic Church. We see this in Acts in the first council and following councils and continuously throughout the history of the Church.

A question and illustrative example, when an Calvinist and a non-Calvinist disagree, how do they “take it to the church”?

When you and I disagree about the meaning of scripture, which of our views is “the Christian view”?

And, finally, do you say, credo: in One Holy and Apostolic Church?

If so, what does it mean to you? What did it mean when it was decided in Council?

Yes, I believe the "church" was given authority by Jesus, but the question should be to whom was meant by the church and how long was this authority to remain with them?

In the first century, there were apostles who along with designated disciples started local churches. They ensured that there were leaders who were grounded in the faith. We see that even from the first, there were challenges to the orthodox faith. I believe the Holy Scriptures - the Bible - was given as the authority and from when it was first being written, it gradually substituted for the apostolic authority once the individual apostles died. Their founded churches then proceeded to send out evangelists who, in turn led people to Christ, trained their leaders and established new local churches. So, no, I do not believe as you say that there was this ONE, TRUE, ONLY Church (singular). Rather there were many across the continent, all being established and peopled by genuine, born-again believers in Christ and the Bible became their "rule of the faith". Certainly the early councils had a place while the Scriptures were being written and circulated and their proclamations were circulated throughout the regions as well.

There have been and will continue to be disagreement with certain stances on doctrine, but we have the Bible as our guide and authority on matters critical to the faith. A Calvinist has come to certain conclusions about some things that I differ with, but not all Calvinists believe all the teachings of Calvin on all things and some even go way past what Calvin even dreamed of in some areas (hyper-Calvinism). Regardless, we still agree on the major tenets of the Christian faith and that is what really matters. Certainly you can concede that not everything a Christian can think or believe in the minor areas is in black and white in Scripture and I think as long as we "get" the important stuff right, we will be able to get along just fine. There should be liberty on the nonessential.

Finally, when I have said the Apostles' Creed, I understand that "One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" means the universal body of believers in Christ that ARE one in him and the teachings of the Apostles are still being taught and believed - the Bible is the way we know that.

6,899 posted on 01/07/2011 8:04:29 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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