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To: boatbums; metmom; RnMomof7; Gamecock
salvation is by the grace of God through faith alone. I and others have repeatedly shown you the proofs from the Word of God

No you didn't. You showed me verses where faith is praised and leads to salvation. You also showed me verses where grace is said to be not of works. But theae are all Catholic doctrine, and none of these teaches that faith alone is salvific. If you think you showed me somethign other than what is the general description above, find that post and then kindly find my response to that post, and if that does nto work, get back to me.

Our works are a by-product of the changed heart of flesh that was once stone, the new nature versus the old sin nature

Just recently (see my 6,378 responding to Gamecock's 5700) Gamecock infored me that "no one claims that good works automatically follows faith". Apparently boatbums did not get the memo.

If works are a by-product of faith, why does the Bible exhort to them, including Titus 3 that you incompletely and incorrectly cite:

[1] Admonish them to be subject to princes and powers, to obey at a word, to be ready to every good work. [2] To speak evil of no man, not to be litigious, but gentle: shewing all mildness towards all men. [3] For we ourselves also were some time unwise, incredulous, erring, slaves to divers desires and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. [4] But when the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared: [5] Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost; [6] Whom he hath poured forth upon us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour: [7] That, being justified by his grace, we may be heirs, according to hope of life everlasting. [8] It is a faithful saying: and these things I will have thee affirm constantly: that they, who believe in God, may be careful to excel in good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

(Titus 3)

if you choose to do your good works out of your own strength to ensure your salvation, then you are rejecting the grace of God

This just makes no sense. I choose to do good works because the Bible tell me I will not be saved otherwise (Matthew 25:31-46). Also, it is precisely because "His blood pays for sin, completely" that my works can sanctify my by the sovereign operation of His grace. If there had been no Cross, there would have been no "laver of regeneration" and no "faith that worketh in charity" (Gal 5:6), and no "good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10).

6,388 posted on 01/01/2011 7:50:00 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex; metmom; RnMomof7; Gamecock; caww
If works are a by-product of faith, why does the Bible exhort to them,

Is that a rhetorical question? I'll give you an answer anyway so you cannot come back and say I never did. We are reminded, exhorted, encouraged, etc., to good works because we are still here. Simple as that! As long as we are in this human flesh, we still have the old nature within as well as the new. Paul spoke about the battles he still had with the sin nature - doing what he didn't want to do, and not doing what he did want to do - and he had been saved 25+ years or so when he wrote it.

Certainly you understand that just because a person is a Christian, it doesn't mean they never sin again. In fact, I think the devil tries even harder to tempt believers into sinful living - especially those in ministry - so as to discourage them and cast shame upon the name of Christ. The clerical scandals within your own church are ample proof of that. The unsaved need no temptation as it just goes along with their natural self. Children of God have within them the new nature, the spiritual nature, and they have a strength as well as the desire to not give in to the sin nature. That is what is meant by good works naturally following true faith. It is a byproduct of the new nature and if a new convert says he has faith but his life shows no change towards a godly life or even a desire TO change, then we may conclude that their faith is not genuine.

Not everyone is the same, obviously, so we all have our own walk with the Lord, our own race to run, so to speak. So we should be exhorted and encouraged in how to walk and run in the way that brings glory to God. We "work out our salvation" not to get it but because we have it and we need to grow in grace and in the power of God.

I don't know why God leaves us here on earth to sometimes fall, other than I have seen these lo 40+ years with him that he uses every trial, every sin, every failing to bring me closer to him. Through it all I've seen that he has never forsaken me, never lost me, never cast me out or left me but, as the father of the prodigal son, he was always drawing me back to him. My sins have brought me to a deeper remorse and repentance than I ever would have had as an outsider. So, yes, we are a new creation in Christ that God leads and directs and disciplines through his Word. I am a far different person spiritually now than when I first was saved. That is what this new nature causes to happen within us and it is how we can know that we really are His, we are really born again.

Finally, you say "I choose to do good works because the Bible tell me I will not be saved otherwise" . What this proves to me is that you don't grasp the meaning of grace for, if you did, you would understand that no amount of works we can possibly do can bring us salvation. If they could, Christ is dead in vain. I and others have given you verse after verse that says this and only you can answer why you don't see it. But, I mean this from the bottom of my heart, I pray you one day will.

6,409 posted on 01/01/2011 9:36:36 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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