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To: count-your-change; annalex
Where do you people come up with this stuff? The word in question is not "eis", it's ἐστιν, as in "τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου." It does not mean "mean" or "signify" which is "σημαίνει" or "represents" or "symbolizes" which is "συμβολίζει"! "Εστιν" is the present tense third person singular for the verb "to be", in this case as in "This is". Your "translators" are not translators at all. At best they are Protestant propagandists and at worst they are simply liars with an agenda. For 1500+ years Christians all believed in the Real Presence...until Zwingli whose teachings against the Real Presence were based on the profound notion that Christ couldn't possibly be "in" the bread and wine because He couldn't be in two places at once!

"Now why would I not believe the “historical knowledge” of the Catholic Church in preference to the Gospels?"

Maybe because the "translations" of the Gospels you are reading are nonsense. At least the The Church understands, and even prays in, Greek.

5,848 posted on 12/26/2010 10:57:03 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: annalex; Kolokotronis

My typo eis should read esti or estin.


5,850 posted on 12/26/2010 12:21:32 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Kolokotronis; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
2 Timothy 3

1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,13while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Catholics are great with their convoluted explanations, tradition based theology, and labels that they like to slap on everyone to pigeon hole them, but are oblivious to the actual truth of Scripture.

Catholics just need to get to the beautiful simplicity of the gospel message and throw off the chains of tradition and convoluted ceremonies and sacraments that make getting to God far more complicated that it is, and that He intended it to be.

Catholicism puts people into bondage to a God who is never satisfied with their efforts. The best the majority of Catholics can hope for is an extended stay in the torment of purgatory. Some God they serve. One who would torment people for their sins after telling them He died for them to be forgiven.

Grace and mercy and forgiveness are gifts freely given by a God of love. Any god who demands payment for those sins, hasn't forgiven them. Requiring payment negates grace and mercy.

The wages of sin is death. That's all we can ever earn for what we do.

5,851 posted on 12/26/2010 12:45:24 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Kolokotronis; count-your-change
Maybe because the "translations" of the Gospels you are reading are nonsense. At least the The Church understands, and even prays in, Greek.

Not the Roman Catholic church.

Are you saying that they are NOT The Church, then?

Is the Orthodox one the only true one since it understands and prays in Greek?

5,852 posted on 12/26/2010 12:47:55 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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