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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; MarkBsnr; metmom; stfassisi; OLD REGGIE; boatbums
"[C]hrist’s saying that the Spirit “proceeds from the Father” and is sent to the world by both, the Father and Himself (John 15:26, 14:26; cf. Luke 11:13, Acts 2:33. Procession, subjection and objectively, is not energy, but a mode of existence of the Father and of the Spirit, exactly as birth is a mode of the existence of the Son, objectively, and of the Father, subjectively. Thus, the peculiar quality of the Holy Spirit is placed side by side with the peculiar qualities of the Father and the Son. Therefore, the Spirit is of an equal honor with the other two Persons, which would not be the case if He were the result or the product of an energy, when He would be inferior to them as the creators. This is why it is said of the Holy Spirit that when He comes to the world “He will convince the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment” (John 16:8) exactly as does the Son (cf. John 5:22,27,30, 8:16, 12:31), even though “He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak, and He will declare the things that are to come” (John 16:13-15). To this effect the Spirit “takes what is Christ’s (John 16:15),” who in turn has taken what is the Father’s (John 3:35, 6:37, 10:29, 13:3, 16:15). Indeed, the Son does not speak the words on His own authority (John 14:10), because His teaching is not His, but the Father’s who sent Him to the world (John 7:16, cf 3:34, 8:26,28,30, 12:49, etc.). Likewise the Spirit does not bear witness to the Father, but to the Son (John15:26), whom He glorifies (John 16:14). Now, this evidence shows clearly that consubstantiality and equality of honor go hand in hand with a successive order of the divine Persons which cannot be violated and which guards the peculiar attributes of each Person. It is exactly this order which has been revealed in the economy and from this we are guided to the ‘Theo-nomy’." Christos Sp. Voulgaris, The Biblical and Patristic Doctrine of the Trinity

This entire piece is worth reading, especially sec. 7 where he has a great discussion of the patristics of the Trinity. It was written by the Dean of the Theology School at the University of Athens. Here's a link:

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/voulgaris_trinity.html

5,699 posted on 12/22/2010 4:00:14 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis

Good affirmation. I see the Deity of Christ as something well attested to (http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/DEITYofCHRIST.html) but the error that is often made is that positional distinctions disallow it, but while the head of Christ is the Father, to whom He will be subject to in the future, and the Spirit is subject to the Son, that does not negate their ontological oneness.

There is a question as to how much, if any, one must understand this relationship in order to be saved. My thinking is basically that the soul who first looks to the Son sent from the Father to be the Savior the world (1Jn. 4:14) for the salvation of his own soul, is implicitly attributing Deity to Christ, as well as to the Father. And as this is spiritually revealed, the saved soul should realize the basic core teaching of the Godhead of the Father Son and Spirit when enlightened to it by the Scriptures and scriptural teaching, if in as he continues therein.


5,705 posted on 12/22/2010 1:19:36 PM PST by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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