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To: annalex; caww
No they haven't. They have been spun away. No sale. You guys don't understand the scripture and run away from it. "See that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" shouldn't require any "explanations", it means what it says.

That's why I love debating you guys, you make it SO easy. So "us guys" are the ones who run away from the understanding of Scripture? How about those who pull one verse, out of context, and then deny a ream of other verses that countermand their choice verse? Okay, you say a man is "justified by works"? Well, tell me how you then "explain" this:

Romans 3:23-26
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

5,451 posted on 12/15/2010 7:58:20 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums

......”Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus”.......

I think this goes over their heads because their focus remains on how ‘they’ might gain favor before God...still. While He is trying to open their eyes that is He who has done the work....At the root of their thinking is pride...like the Sadduces and Pharises.

As we know it took the Diciples along time to understand Jesus’s teachings...and He had to repeat time and again His truths to them before they finally got it....and most didn’t until after His Resurrection....which the Resurrection needs a closer look at for many of them I think...as Christ is no longer on the cross.

I say this because I have noted much in the Catholic prayers posted show agony of spirit and begging God for forgiveness....where as He has clearly stated He is more than ready to forgive and cleanse us when we sin. Might be because they do pray to the departed to let Jesus know they are praying this...and the departed for help that they might not know His forgiveness unless they see themsleves begging...once more the focus on how much ‘they” display thier remorse than on His love which does Forgive. Prodical son comes to mind.....even before He got to His father the Father was preparing a feast.


5,452 posted on 12/15/2010 8:22:22 PM PST by caww
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To: boatbums; caww
Okay, you say a man is "justified by works"? Well, tell me how you then "explain" this:

Romans 3:23-26

What is to explain? The passage says everything the Catholic Church teaches: that sin is redeemed by the blood of Christ, in which we have faith (hm...); that grace alone justifies us given us freely without merit on our part. You did not include the remainder of the passage but had you read a couple verses down you would have seen that the thrust here is with the impossiblity of salvation by "works of the law", as the Jews believed. The passage does not say that we are saved by faith alone, and we do not teach that we are saved by works alone. We believe what St. Paul teaches. You don't: you add your own spin to his belief and in other places you ingore the Gospel altogether. You, for example, do not believe that His Blood is present in the Eucharist even though that belief is cited here as saving faith.

5,967 posted on 12/27/2010 6:15:07 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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