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To: daniel1212; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

To me, the works are indicators that the faith is not mere intellectual assent, but genuine faith.

Even the demons believe and tremble.

However, to expect those works to save you or contribute to your salvation, is in error.

There’s a distinction that I think that Catholics miss. That is that there are two kinds of works.

One is the kind that flow naturally out of a person as a result of the faith they have and Christ living in them.

The other is the kind that someone else sets up and demands that everyone else adhere to in order to qualify for salvation.


5,379 posted on 12/14/2010 2:41:23 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; daniel1212; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; ...

“To me, the works are indicators that the faith is not mere intellectual assent, but genuine faith.”

Paul says in Acts 26:20 to bring forth works that are in congruence with repentance (things that prove they had changed their lives).


5,380 posted on 12/14/2010 2:55:40 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: metmom; blue-duncan

I have never been a Lutheran, but they worked out some joint statements - from which these, relative to the issue at subject, are taken:

Appendix, Part 4.2. “The Lutheran doctrine has never understood the ‘crediting of Christ’s justification’ as without effect on the life of the faithful, because Christ’s Word achieves what it promises. Accordingly the Lutheran doctrine understands grace as God’s favor, but nevertheless as effective power . . . ‘for where there is forgiveness of sins, there is also life and salvation’” [VELKD 86, 15-23].

“By justification we are both declared and made righteous. Justification, therefore, is not a legal fiction. God, in justifying, effects what he promises; he forgives sin and makes us truly righteous” (USA, no. 156,5).

...the Reformers taught a view of salvation that included both an imputational concept of justification, based on the imputation of the righteousness of Christ, as well as the necessity for transformation by the grace of God

“According to Protestant interpretation, the faith that clings unconditionally to God’s promise in Word and Sacrament is sufficient for righteousness before God, so that the renewal of the human being, without which there can be no faith, does not in itself make any contribution to justification” (LV:E 52).

- “As Lutherans we maintain the distinction between justification and sanctification, of faith and works, which however implies no separation” (VELKD 89,6-8). -
JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html


5,385 posted on 12/14/2010 4:51:28 PM PST by daniel1212 ( ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: metmom; daniel1212; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww
To me, the works are indicators that the faith is not mere intellectual assent, but genuine faith. Even the demons believe and tremble. However, to expect those works to save you or contribute to your salvation, is in error. There’s a distinction that I think that Catholics miss. That is that there are two kinds of works. One is the kind that flow naturally out of a person as a result of the faith they have and Christ living in them. The other is the kind that someone else sets up and demands that everyone else adhere to in order to qualify for salvation.

I fully agree. May I add also that I hear many say "just believing is not enough, because even the demons believe, etc.". What is missed is two-fold. First the Scripture being quoted (James 2:19) speaks of someone who "believes in one God" and then says, basically, "So, what, even demons believe that." It does not speak of someone who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior. Secondly, of course the demons believe in one God, because it is the truth! But demons do not have the opportunity to place their trust in Christ who died to pay for their sins. Christ died for mankind, demons made their choice of who to follow long before there was mankind.

5,398 posted on 12/14/2010 7:51:41 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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