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To: annalex; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
If you have another explanation why you tell people that works have nothing to do with our salvation, when the gospel teaches the exact opposite, I'd like to see it. So far, I haven't.

Then you're not looking. I've posted this a number of times.

Galatians 3 1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

And there are plenty of verses in Romans and Ephesians in addition which teach the same thing.

Why do Catholics take one out of context verse and focus on that to the exclusion of chapters of material that teach otherwise?

If you have a substantive argument, I am all ears, -- you, Belteshazzar of all often do, and I respond in kind, and thank you.

If, on the other hand, you evade direct and textual questions based on nothing but the text of the scripture, then I think you should expect the ridicule, and I have an abundance of it.

Matthew 5 38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Does this standard apply to Catholics when it comes to the sinlessness of Mary, her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception, and her assumption?

So, when Catholics evade the clear teaching of Scripture about Jesus siblings, then by your standard we can ridicule you back? And you should expect it?

5,245 posted on 12/12/2010 9:36:40 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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ph


5,246 posted on 12/12/2010 10:18:41 PM PST by xone
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To: metmom

Its in the wording.

“Works have nothing to do with salvation” is meant by us that believers do not merit the attainment of eternal life itself, that eternal life is not a reward to their good works and merits. (Trent, Chapter XVI; The Sixth Session Decree on justification, 1547) - with merit being understood as deserved - but that God-given faith is counted for righteousness, although it must be a manner of faith that results in works of faith, by the Spirit. (Jn. 10:27,28; Heb. 5:9) And which confessional type faith (Rm. 10:10:9,10) God sees and washes, sanctifies and justifies man. (1Cor. 6:11; Acts 2:38; 10:43-4; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13) To the glory of God.

Faith alone but not a faith that is alone, but not works which merit eternal life.


5,376 posted on 12/14/2010 2:16:29 PM PST by daniel1212 ( ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww
If you have another explanation why you tell people that works have nothing to do with our salvation, when the gospel teaches the exact opposite, I'd like to see it. [posts Gal. 1:3-14]

That is not "another". In several places St. Paul explains that works of the Law, Jewish Law or any other are not necessary for salvation, and we Catholics agree with him. In that passage, as well, he repeats that. Note verse 10.

As to Abraham's faith, St. Paul also lists the works that Abraham did to glorify God. His circumcision is not one of them. So does St James. (Hebrews 11:8-19, James 2:21-24). So, in the example of Abraham whose faith is indeed an inspiration for us, we conclude with St. James, -- Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Does this standard [Matthew 5:38-48] apply to Catholics when it comes to the sinlessness of Mary, her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception, and her assumption? So, when Catholics evade the clear teaching of Scripture about Jesus siblings, then by your standard we can ridicule you back?

The standard of the Sermon of the Mount, and generally the standard of divine perfection in Matthew 5:48 applies to Catholics. In fact it applies to everyone, the Protestant just think they can avoid applying it to thmselves through their sleazy "faith alone" maneuvre.

As to these Mary issues, I agree that the scripture is not alone sufficient to teach about her lifelong sinlessness and virginity; we don't teach that from the Bible but rather from the Holy Tradition whence the entire knowledge of Mary and her life comes.

It is however false that there is a "clear teaching of Scripture about Jesus siblings". There is the correct usage of the word "adelphos/adelpheh" that may include other relatives or even apparent relatives. That usage does not preclude actual brothers in the narrow sense, but it does not prove it. The Protestant error is to read the English translation as if it were the original and pretend that they cannot understand the explanation of what the text means.

Do we Catholics love the Protestants? We love you all, and we hate your theology because your theology is false and leads you away from the Holy Church, the pillar and foundation of truth. How can we, as we love you, not hate that?

5,645 posted on 12/20/2010 5:47:01 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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