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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; stfassisi
How do you separate you from your understanding, FK?

I separate me from my understanding by keeping faithful to what scripture says. My sinful nature would love to interpret scripture to allow for all sorts of sins. We have both seen nutjobs of all stripes use scripture to try to legitimate everything from adultery to abortion to homosexual conduct, etc. Those might be the easy ones, but I have definitely caught myself before trying to justify something I wound up deciding was wrong because of a more honest look at scripture. I take those occasions as concrete evidence of Holy Spirit's personal leading. And so, if in accordance with scripture Holy Spirit leads on these occasions then it follows that He leads individually as a general matter since no distinction is made in scripture. The Bible just says that Holy Spirit will lead us "in all things".

Now, concerning why all Christians don't have the same interpretations it should be noted that all Christians are at different places in their respective walks with the Lord. There are some spiritual truths that some are just not ready to handle yet, so Holy Spirit deals with us accordingly. It doesn't mean He leads in error, just that He may lead in varying "doses" or in varying levels of understanding. I'm sure we would agree that any given verse or passage could potentially have more than one fully true meaning. So for example, at one point I felt led to hold the Arminian view of cooperation. It can certainly be argued that the Bible has support for this. But now I believe the Holy Spirit has taken me to the next level in Reformed theology, also arguably supported by scripture. I don't think I could have made the jump directly so I believe it was necessary to get me there in steps, which is what I think Holy Spirit did. Undoubtedly I have many more steps to go concerning many many issues and I can't wait to have them revealed to me. All of this makes sense because Christian growth, whether through the leading of the Magisterium or Holy Spirit directly, is a life long process.

4,891 posted on 12/06/2010 10:10:20 AM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Forest Keeper
There are some spiritual truths that some are just not ready to handle yet, so Holy Spirit deals with us accordingly. It doesn't mean He leads in error, just that He may lead in varying "doses" or in varying levels of understanding.

I've known people who have been saved out of horrendous lifestyles. They were still rough around the edges and were often criticized by others who called themselves *Christian*.

Sure, they weren't to the same level of *spirituality* that may church people felt they had attained, but for their flaws in doctrine and sometimes still sin in their lives, they had made light years of progress. Much more so than the legalists who were condemning them.

It was just a matter of where they started from compared to others. They had further to go, but made MUCH, MUCH more individual progress.

If someones doctrine doesn't match mine in areas where it is not critical for one's salvation, then I figure it's up to God to convict them. There is no compromise however, on the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, His death, burial, and resurrection though.

4,894 posted on 12/06/2010 10:25:33 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; MarkBsnr; metmom; stfassisi
"So for example, at one point I felt led to hold the Arminian view of cooperation. It can certainly be argued that the Bible has support for this. But now I believe the Holy Spirit has taken me to the next level in Reformed theology, also arguably supported by scripture. I don't think I could have made the jump directly so I believe it was necessary to get me there in steps, which is what I think Holy Spirit did. Undoubtedly I have many more steps to go concerning many many issues and I can't wait to have them revealed to me."

Your comment reminds me of a conversation I had with the father of one of my godchildren. He and his wife and children all converted to Orthodoxy. Anyway, he was going on and on about how awful and heretical Protestantism was and how glad he was that through bible study he had "stumbled" upon the Fathers and having read some of the Fathers, he and his family found Orthodoxy. I was going to slug him, but instead reminded him that his bible study had been in a very small Baptist community where the HS had lead him to read that bible and in turn to read the Fathers which in turn lead him and his to Orthodoxy. He was, shall we say, embarrassed. He is now an Orthodox priest! :)

"God moves in a mysterious way

his wonders to perform;"

4,897 posted on 12/06/2010 10:41:38 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; stfassisi
I separate me from my understanding by keeping faithful to what scripture says

But what the scripture says has to do with how you process the information based on your culture, beliefs, language, etc.

I take those occasions as concrete evidence of Holy Spirit's personal leading

So does everyone else, FK.

Now, concerning why all Christians don't have the same interpretations it should be noted that all Christians are at different places in their respective walks with the Lord

So, all those who are way off out there, on the margins of Christianity, are being misguided by the Holy Spirit?

You said, I quote, "We have both seen nutjobs of all stripes use scripture to try to legitimate everything from adultery to abortion to homosexual conduct, etc. Those might be the easy ones, but I have definitely caught myself before trying to justify something I wound up deciding was wrong because of a more honest look at scripture."

That doesn't sound like "The Holy Spirit corrected me" but rather you corrected yourself based on your beliefs and personal standards. So, which is it?

Are you also suggesting that those nutjobs are not guided by the Holy Spirit or that they are guided into wrong conclusions since God already predestined them to hell, so he is only deceiving them intentionally to make sure they don't find that "narrow path" on their own but to wander off and be lost???

I don't think I could have made the jump directly so I believe it was necessary to get me there in steps, which is what I think Holy Spirit did.

You are certainly entitled to think so, and I can't really argue with that, but this flies in the face what you said before, that you "caught yours self" trying to justify something...and that you "wound up deciding [it] was wrong." Besides, you don't think people change their minds as they experience life from different angles?

All of this makes sense because Christian growth, whether through the leading of the Magisterium or Holy Spirit directly, is a life long process

So is life, FK, every aspect of it, every day, and that holds even for animals. Life is a learning process, not necessarily a divine learning process.

If what you are saying is true, then the certainty expressed by Protestants cannot be an absolute certainty, but merely a hope. Hence, a self-contradiction.

4,902 posted on 12/06/2010 12:00:55 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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