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To: Diamond
I simply deny that our physical makeup is all we are.

Based on what evidence?

If you believe that everything that exists is material—part of the physical universe, then you can’t have laws of logic because the laws of logic are not physical.

Laws of logic are abstractions based on the physical world or on imagined or pretend-reality axioms that represent material concepts.

The ultimate proof of logic is in the material world from which it comes. Thus, if A=B, and B=C, then A=C must have some basis in reality, the symbols representing real things. Otherwise, the equations are meaningless.

4,164 posted on 12/01/2010 11:02:27 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50; Diamond
diamond:I simply deny that our physical makeup is all we are.

kosta: Based on what evidence?

Is your will physical? Are your thoughts physical? What about your hopes and dreams? Interests? Hobbies? Likes and dislikes? Appreciation of beauty or music?

4,167 posted on 12/01/2010 11:08:26 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: kosta50
Laws of logic are abstractions based on the physical world or on imagined or pretend-reality axioms that represent material concepts.

What is a "material concept"? It sounds like a contradiction in terms.

In the closed, accidental conglomeration of matter in motion, otherwise know as the universe, what is your foundation for any of these non-material "abstractions", "pretend-reality axioms", ("axioms" which further presuppose the existence of "assumptions" and "propositions") ? No one can see or touch any of these things you're referring to .

The ultimate proof of logic is in the material world from which it comes. Thus, if A=B, and B=C, then A=C must have some basis in reality, the symbols representing real things. Otherwise, the equations are meaningless.

Logic and the proof of logic are the epiphenomenon of non-rational, materialistic chemical reactions? Chemical reactions occur whenever bonds are formed or broken between molecules. Certain atoms combine with which other atoms electromagnetically based on the properties of their electron shells. How can chemical reactions account for non-material laws? If they do, why should electro/chemical reactions in a brain extend beyond an individual brain? If logic comes from the material world then it is not timeless, universal, and unchanging. Is logic absolute or is it merely conventional? If it is merely conventional, rational debate would be impossible because there could be as many standards as there are people. Alternatively, in an accidental materialistic universe, why would there be universal, unchanging standards?”

I would like to know your foundation - in an accidental, materialistic universe - for all these non-material, accidental by-products of matter in motion, which you refer to as the laws of logic.

Cordially,

4,381 posted on 12/02/2010 3:52:36 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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