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To: blue-duncan
God does not lack anything in Himself that would prompt Him to create beings that would fall into sin

That's certainly the orthodox view of the catholic Church and, I imagine, of the majority of Protestant sects. However, there is a problem with that because either the world is exactly as he willed it or it's not; either he is in charge or he is not.

He wasn’t lonely or bored. He is eternally self-sufficient and perfect and doesn’t need anything

Then why did he bother creating the world? That's is a self-contradiciton. If you are perfectly content then why do something? Speaking of doing, when you say God wasn't bored, what exactly was he "doing" for all eternity by himself?

The answer lies within God’s nature; God is love (1 John 4:16, “And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love ;…”) and the nature of love is to give

Well, good, since God is Three, there was plenty of love to give and to receive in this perfect loving triangle, the three divine hypostases entangled in an eternal give-and-take, which is perfect, sufficient and lacking in nothing. Why make the world?

Without this fall, ultimately no death would be necessary to atone for them and without that death, the greatest act of love could not be demonstrated and the truest and most perfect quality of love would not be fulfilled. God may very well have made a universe in which sin existed so that He Himself could show the greatest and most perfect act of love by laying down His life for His friends.

But why was there a need or reason to demonstrate it? Who is God trying to impress and why?

3,710 posted on 11/30/2010 10:18:57 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50

“Who is God trying to impress and why?”

I have often asked myself the same question; but find myself coming back to Gandalf’s observation at the end of “The Hobbit”. In the book’s last passage, Gandalf jokingly chides the Bilbo about his insignificance, telling him that he is “only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!”

Gandalf the Grey: “Surely you don’t disbelieve the prophecies because you helped bring them about? You don’t really suppose, do you, that all your adventures and escapes were managed by mere luck, just for your sole benefit? You’re a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I’m very fond of you, but you’re only quite a little fellow in a wide world, after all.”

Paul says we fight a battle that is beyond our imagining, (Eph 6:12) “ For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].”

I think the writer of Hebrews was making an observation similar to Gandalf’s,

Heb. 2:9, 14-18, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”.....”Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”

Rev 12:7, “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,”

My response is similar to Bilbo’s,

Bilbo Baggins: “Thank goodness!”


3,715 posted on 11/30/2010 11:07:25 AM PST by blue-duncan
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