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To: The Theophilus; metmom; presently no screen name
why later did [the biography of Mary] become so important as to merit "Holy Tradition"?

It was Holy Tradition all along. Facts of apostolic origin known to the Church are either the Holy Tradition or Holy Scripture. Tradition became scripture at some point, but nothing can become Tradition by definition of the word. One can, of course, develop everyday traditions, like when to fast etc. Further, since life goes on, lives of saints get incorporated in the traditions of the local Church. But since Mary belongs to the age of the Apostles, the facts of her life are part of the same deposit of faith given the Apostles as the entire Holy Tradition "once delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3).

Apparently it was germane to Matthew and so was mentioned [in Mt 1:24-25]

It is not in Matthew 24-25. In Matthew 1:24-25 we are told that prior to Christ's birth Mary had no physical relations with Joseph and that Jesus was the first male child that she had, the firstborn. It did not say that Mary subsequently had any physical relations with Joseph, or had other children, or retired in a condo in Florida, or anything else. You are adding your fantasies to the Holy Scripture.

Mary's sin against God in refusing the role of wife. (1 Corinthians 7:2-5; Matthew 19:5)

Neither is the idea that Joseph asked for something she did not give him is in the scripture. Again, like with the entire Protestant baloney on sticks, the scripture is not read for what it says, but rather isolated verses are twisted till they fit in the preconceived notion of what you think the scripture should be saying. The comical part is that this process of distortion is called "Scripture Alone".

that there are good words to use for "cousin". A relevant example is here the word 'άνεψιός' which, means "cousin", or if you are a 1611 KJV translator, means "nephew". (compare Col 4:10 between versions).

I don't think I said, or St. Matthew meant to say "cousins". Brothers is a correct term in the Greek of the period, for a collection of relatives who are close in age, whose precise relation is either not known or not important, or differs inside the group. To say, for example, "cousins" excludes step brothers, milk brothers adopted brothers and playmates.

wanted to convey the idea of actual brothers and sisters, what would they have actually said differently than what is already there?

If it were important, the would indicate who the parents were, like Mary Cleophas is indicated as the mother of some of these putative "brothers" (John 19:25, Mark 15:40).

Rome has no problems rewriting history and the Word of God.

What did Rome rewrite? I can tell you what Luther rewrote (Romans 3:28).

3,659 posted on 11/30/2010 5:14:32 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
In Matthew 1:24-25 we are told that prior to Christ's birth Mary had no physical relations with Joseph and that Jesus was the first male child that she had, the firstborn. It did not say that Mary subsequently had any physical relations with Joseph, or had other children, or retired in a condo in Florida, or anything else. You are adding your fantasies to the Holy Scripture.

Nor does it say that she ALWAYS remained a virgin or lived a life without sin or was bodily assumed to heaven. Why are you adding your fantasies to the Holy Scripture?

Matthew 1:24-25 And Joseph, having risen from the sleep, did as the messenger of the Lord directed him, and received his wife, and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus.

Why do you take one part of the verse as being true and in mid-sentence decide that the rest of the verse is not? Although they are two verses, they are one thought and one sentence and it clearly says that he knew her AFTER she had given birth.

That's one the worst examples (and yet one of many) of exegesis by Catholics that I've seen. Yet it's pretty typical for a Catholic to apply different standards of interpretation to different portions of one sentence or passage to twist it around to fit their doctrine.

And no, those verses do not say that Mary had other children. That information is found elsewhere in the Gospels, and ALL of them mention His brothers and a couple NAME them.

Denial of the obvious is ludicrous.

And mockery does not help you case. We're not the ones making stuff up about Mary. Nobody said she lived in a condo in FL.

Tradition became scripture at some point, but nothing can become Tradition by definition of the word.

How do you know that? Peter called Paul's writings Scripture very early on in the life of the church. Contemporaneously, I believe. Not long enough to become *Tradition*.

Just out of curiosity, why do you and other Catholics have enough respect for tradition to capitalize the word but do not capitalize the word *scripture*? I've notice it often with the word *bible* as well.

3,672 posted on 11/30/2010 5:55:58 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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