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To: MarkBsnr; OLD REGGIE; Kolokotronis; RnMomof7; blue-duncan; metmom; HarleyD; Gamecock; ...
The whole WCF up until now has told us that the reprobate cannot avoid sin and cannot be saved.

1) Can any man "avoid sin?"

No.

2) Can the reprobate be saved?

No.

Read up on the nature of man and the definition of "reprobate," Mark, and save yourself from such elementary errors.

Note the wording here: God is pleased to create men specifically for dishonor and wrath.

Does the papist Bible contain Romans 9? If not, borrow a Bible from one of your Protestant friends and read it.

Note the wording: suffering, wrath, crush, justice, sacrifice, more wrath...

LOL. Looks like you're having a problem with understanding "God's wrath." Read what your own church teaches, Mark...

From The Encyclical of Pope Pius XI on the Catholic Priesthood...

29. If Our Lord made such magnificent and solemn promises even to private prayers, how much more powerful must be that prayer which is said ex officio in the name of the Church, the beloved Spouse of the Savior? The Christian, though in prosperity so often forgetful of God, yet in the depth of his heart keeps his confidence in prayer, feels that prayer is all powerful, and as by a holy instinct, in every distress, in every peril whether private or public, has recourse with special trust to the prayer of the priest. To it the unfortunate of every sort look for comfort; to it they have recourse, seeking divine aid in all the vicissitudes of this exile here on earth. Truly does the "priest occupy a place midway between God and human nature: from Him bringing to us absolving beneficence, offering our prayers to Him and appeasing the wrathful Lord."

lol. Even when Rome almost gets it right, it still gets it wrong. Rome teaches that priests "appease the wrathful Lord."

lol. What a tragedy - to teach men that a priest, that "alter Christus," appeases the wrath of God when it is Christ alone who has appeased the wrath of God by His one-time, perfect sacrifice on the cross for all the sins of His flock.

3,463 posted on 11/28/2010 1:18:23 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; MarkBsnr; OLD REGGIE; RnMomof7; blue-duncan; metmom; HarleyD; Gamecock
"..."priest occupy a place midway between God and human nature: from Him bringing to us absolving beneficence, offering our prayers to Him and appeasing the wrathful Lord."

Good catch, Dr. E. I always suspected that you folks came to your theology by inheritance from your Holy Mother.... :)

3,468 posted on 11/28/2010 1:26:39 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The whole WCF up until now has told us that the reprobate cannot avoid sin and cannot be saved.

1) Can any man "avoid sin?"

No.

No man can by himself, no.

2) Can the reprobate be saved?

No.

Your definitions are wrong. God wills all men to be saved. Consult Paul, if you will not consult Christ.

Read up on the nature of man and the definition of "reprobate," Mark, and save yourself from such elementary errors.

I thought that you guys believed that one cannot save one's self.

Note the wording here: God is pleased to create men specifically for dishonor and wrath.

Does the papist Bible contain Romans 9? If not, borrow a Bible from one of your Protestant friends and read it.

I have no idea what a papist Bible is, but the one I use (NAB) does.

Romans 9: 25 As indeed he says in Hosea: "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved 9 I will call 'beloved.' 26 And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they shall be called children of the living God." 27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the Israelites were like the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved; 28 for decisively and quickly will the Lord execute sentence upon the earth." 29 And as Isaiah predicted: "Unless the Lord of hosts had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom and have been made like Gomorrah." 30 10 What then shall we say? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have achieved it, that is, righteousness that comes from faith; 31 but that Israel, who pursued the law of righteousness, did not attain to that law? 32 Why not? Because they did it not by faith, but as if it could be done by works. They stumbled over the stone that causes stumbling, 11 33 as it is written: "Behold, I am laying a stone in Zion that will make people stumble and a rock that will make them fall, and whoever believes in him shall not be put to shame."

Belief is the key here, not some mythical reprobate from before the universe was created.

29. If Our Lord made such magnificent and solemn promises even to private prayers, how much more powerful must be that prayer which is said ex officio in the name of the Church, the beloved Spouse of the Savior? The Christian, though in prosperity so often forgetful of God, yet in the depth of his heart keeps his confidence in prayer, feels that prayer is all powerful, and as by a holy instinct, in every distress, in every peril whether private or public, has recourse with special trust to the prayer of the priest. To it the unfortunate of every sort look for comfort; to it they have recourse, seeking divine aid in all the vicissitudes of this exile here on earth. Truly does the "priest occupy a place midway between God and human nature: from Him bringing to us absolving beneficence, offering our prayers to Him and appeasing the wrathful Lord."

Very good, Dr. E. You are discovering Christianity, however reluctantly. The wrath here is an afterthought and not the main sense that infests the WCF. If you would read further, you'd find that God's wrath is at sin. You are learning much; congratulations.

The whole WCF up until now has told us that the reprobate cannot avoid sin and cannot be saved.

And the whole of your post avoids the point that in Chapter 33, it says that the Judgement is to deter men from sin, whereas the entire rest of it says that men who are elect will go to heaven, so it doesn't matter and men who are reprobate will go to hell, so it doesn't matter. Reformed beliefs are not logical, nor do they conform to Christianity.

3,475 posted on 11/28/2010 2:08:25 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

That’s the counterfeit church, a lie wrapped up in truth. The RCC’s pawns are so mislead and willingly so - it makes the demons dance.


3,479 posted on 11/28/2010 2:46:39 PM PST by presently no screen name ("Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down.." Mark 7:13)
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