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To: HarleyD
Do you believe homosexuality to be a sin or not? I doubt if you would find the early fathers teaching people can have lust as long as they do not act upon that lust. It is a rather silly doctrine.

The Church does not teach this. If you indulge lust in your mind, that is a sin. It was sinful to have a temptation as long as that temptation was resisted. No change here.

So we went from a blood sacrifice to pay our penalty to someone dying for us because it's a nice thing to do.

No. The article reaffirms Atonement with God "through the blood of His Cross" but traces the development of reasoning on why Satan WAS NOT the receiver of the payment. Are you saying that Satan WAS receiver of the payment? That is the only issue you could have, since the Church fully retains her belief in the Sacrifice. Her priests re-present the Sacrifice at every Mass.

Please let me know of one Orthodox Christian who believes the Pope is the head of the Church.

St. Irenus did. He was an Eastern Christian.

I'd doubt if you would get Augustine to agree with many of the doctrines of the Church today. While he often supported the Catholic Church, at that time it was just about the only thing going.

Augustine's support of Church doctrine in his times attests to his general support since those doctrines have not and will never change.

Let me know when the Church banishes from the Church the homosexuals and pedophiles. This kind of goes back to your first point doesn't it?

Even though some Church human institutions have been temporarily infiltrated by homosexuals, her divinely guided against the sin have never changed, as the ongoing howls of protest aptly attest.

2,209 posted on 11/15/2010 8:26:53 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor
...but traces the development of reasoning on why Satan WAS NOT the receiver of the payment. Are you saying that Satan WAS receiver of the payment?

It is a poor assumption by Catholic theologians to say that Satan would be the receiver of such a payment. That would be like saying Abraham was sacrificing Isaac to Satan. Rather, I would suggest, the payment needed to be made to God the Father.

St. Irenus did. He was an Eastern Christian.

My, my. You sure had to go back far enough. I doubt if Irenus would believe that the Pope is the authoritarian spokeperson of the Church today. The Orthodox certainly don't.

Augustine's support of Church doctrine in his times attests to his general support since those doctrines have not and will never change.

Yes, but that was when the Church was in it's infancy. But towards the end of his life, Augustine got the message of the gospel. His Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints was a primary mover in my Reformed views (as well as influencing Calvin, Luther and others).

The Church does not teach this [sic: homosexuality is a sin]. If you indulge lust in your mind, that is a sin. ....Even though some Church human institutions have been temporarily infiltrated by homosexuals, her divinely guided against the sin...

In one place you tell me that homosexuality isn't a sin and then in another you say it is.

Sounds to me rather clear.
2,267 posted on 11/16/2010 5:28:19 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: mas cerveza por favor; HarleyD
Even though some Church human institutions have been temporarily infiltrated by homosexuals, her divinely guided against the sin have never changed, as the ongoing howls of protest aptly attest.

Yet the church ordained homosexuals, made them Bishops and covered for child rapists.. It is say one thing and do another

2,270 posted on 11/16/2010 5:49:03 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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