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“I said that the early church fathers believed Mary to have been perpetually virgin,”

A disinterested historian appr. 25 years old at the time James was martyred (62 A.D.) had this to say about the “perpetual virginity” of Mary,

“Josephus, Antiquities Book 20: chapter 9
1. CONCERNING ALBINUS UNDER WHOSE PROCURATORSHIP JAMES WAS SLAIN; AS ALSO WHAT EDIFICES WERE BUILT BY AGRIPPA.
1. AND now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned:”

It has been argued that this was an addition/editorial comment of Eusebius in the 4th century, however Eusebius was the fawning historian of Constantine who wanted to consolidate the church with the political Rome so it would be counterproductive to alienate the early church fathers.

blue-duncan wrote (quoting Josephus):
“Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others ...”

Again, what does brother mean here? The early fathers, as well as Luther and nearly all of the Reformers, were well acquainted with Josephus. Still, they were not swayed that this was conclusive proof. Also, Josephus’ accuracy is not always perfect.

For the record - again - I have no dog in this hunt. I freely admitted that, having examined the arguments both ways, I don’t know. For that reason I well understand why the early and even not so early Lutherans labeled this a true adiaphoron.

Trying again....

To even imagine this is rediculous as it defies scriptures clarity that Jesus had brothers and a family. Yes, many do twist and or invision other than the clear writing to somehow justify their “belief”...but it is only that...a belief by some who without all the hoopla over Mary would have difficulty with their entire faith structure. Especially those who holed tightly to the adoration of Mary. If her image of what they perceive her as falls...then thne the rest of their faith is in jeapordy.