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To: RnMomof7; Dr. Eckleburg
"I will stand before God on the day I die without fear or trembling, because I know the one that declares me redeemed and justified..."

That's only because you bought into that whole predestined, elect, once saved - always saved nonesense. I have seen enough un-Christian behavior on these threads alone to know you and more than a few of your Calvinist brethren (and "sisteren") are going to be unpleasantly surprised without contrition.

206 posted on 11/01/2010 1:43:55 PM PDT by Natural Law ("opera Christi non deficiunt, sed proficiunt")
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To: Natural Law; RnMomof7; Dr. Eckleburg; metmom
That's only because you bought into that whole predestined, elect, once saved - always saved nonesense. I have seen enough un-Christian behavior on these threads alone to know you and more than a few of your Calvinist brethren (and "sisteren") are going to be unpleasantly surprised without contrition.

Thanks for the opportunity I have to discuss my ideas about this very thing.

You mock those who, through faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, trust in the mercy and grace of God to hold them in his hands justified and sanctified by the blood of Christ. You also claim to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior. So what exactly will differentiate us in the eyes of God when we face eternity?

The strawdog that keeps being thrown-up (literally) is that the OSAS crowd thinks they can live as they please, sin all they want, take advantage of grace, snub their noses at God's commandments and he will ignore it all and welcome them and only them to their "mansions in the sky" - via a limousine, yet!

I can't even remember how many times you and yours have been corrected about this misconception, but it has had no effect, the lies keep getting spewed. So that no excuse can be made that we never spoke about it, let me reiterate:

1. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Nothing we do earns this grace, because then it wouldn't be grace if somehow you do something to earn it. It is a GIFT of God.

2. Those who trust in Christ are born again into the family of God. We, who once were at enmity with God, are now at peace through Christ who died for us.

3. NO ONE can come to God with any of their own merit and ALL must fall upon the mercy of God in humbleness of spirit. Those that rely on their good deeds to earn heaven are cast away because it can NEVER pay the penalty for sin. If Christ did not come to save us, we would all be condemned, with no hope, dead in our sins.

4. Those who are redeemed are also renewed. There is a new nature that is not under slavery to sin - we are indwelt with God's Holy Spirit. The more mature our faith grows, the less influence the sin nature has because God is working his holiness within us. Those whose outward lives show no inward change, are not really in the faith because there is the fruit of righteousness that comes from genuine faith. It can't be faked before God.

5. A child of God, can, at times, be disobedient and fall into sin. But we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and we are held by him never to be lost or cast away. Sin causes lost fellowship with our Father and he is always working within us to bring us back through repentance and confession - he is faithful to always forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We will be disciplined by a just and merciful Heavenly Father and, for some who refuse his discipline, he may allow suffering even to death, though his child will still be saved. We don't do anything to earn grace and we cannot do anything to keep it either.

So, now that that is cleared away, my point: If a person comes to Christ in faith and bears the fruit of righteousness in his life, will he be saved? Conversely, if a person comes to Christ, in faith "believing in him", but also striving to do good works because he does not accept that he needs faith alone in Christ alone, will he be saved? Both examples show people who "have faith" and have "good works", so which one is truly saved?

214 posted on 11/01/2010 3:55:43 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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