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To: mas cerveza por favor
Let Jesus be Jesus. You have no authority to redefine His teaching. I could understand if you had questions about the historical authenticity of Church teaching and wanted to investigate further, but you are not saying that. You pronounce your own infallible doctrine heedless of what Jesus taught, implying that your authority is greater than His.

Could you point us to the infallible teachings on Jesus's teachings on apostolic succession, the papacy, immaculate conception, assumption, 7 sacraments...etc.. I am interested in their infallible roots

1,676 posted on 11/13/2010 12:25:13 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: RnMomof7; metmom
Could you point us to the infallible teachings on Jesus's teachings on apostolic succession, the papacy, immaculate conception, assumption, 7 sacraments...etc.. I am interested in their infallible roots

Yes, but first it is necessary to establish a general criteria for determining whether a teaching comes from Jesus. If we cannot do that, it is pointless to argue over particular teachings. Without such discipline, one can pick whatever teaching strikes his fancy.

In addition to being God, Jesus was a real human being of history just like Julius Caesar or George Washington. The Bible record of His teachings obviously did not fall from heaven, but was written and compiled by inspired men in the context of history. An heretical NT canon was first proposed in 140 AD but the Bible did not take its present form until the Forth Century. During this period, the Church had grown to include most peoples of southern Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa.

Many heresies had arisen but were successfully refuted in a series of doctrinal Church councils. The worst of the early heresies was Arianism which denied the godhood of Christ. St. Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, Egypt, almost single-handedly defeated Arianism. In the process, he made the final adjustments to the NT canon to ensure that all its parts were in complete agreement with Church orthodoxy.

Scripture says that the Apostles built the Church based upon the teachings of Christ and the inspiration of Holy Spirit. The Bible is quite clear that it does not contain all of Christ's teachings but enjoins that Christians hold fast to the written and spoken Apostolic traditions. Are we on the same page so far?

1,682 posted on 11/13/2010 2:46:25 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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