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To: esquirette
Name me one Calvinist poster on this thread that does not believe that he or she is of the Scriptural elect. How does that belief occur? Who told each of them individually? Where is it written that, for example, the poster known as esquirette knows that he or she is of the elect? If there is no direct message from God - a blinding light on the road to Damascus in the companionship of several friends might do - that you (the individual) are of that elect now, then either one must contradict the Calvinist teaching that the elect is not all of mankind, or else that Calvinists are Gnostic and not Christian at all. Therefore, that belief is actually self-appointment and makes God beholden to the individual, rather than vice versa. The Christian belief is diametrically opposite to that.

Luke 18: 9 He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. 10 "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' 13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' 14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

Calvinists and the OSAS crowd tell us of the certainty of their own salvation and excoriate Catholics who have only the hope of salvation. Catholics pray several times during each Mass variations of the prayer that the tax collector prayed and that is a deeply held and fundamental part of Christianity. The various anti Catholics on FR regularly say that they thank God that they are not like the Catholics and that they are indeed of the elect.

Am I really mischaracterizing?

118 posted on 11/01/2010 9:17:03 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr

“Name me one Calvinist poster on this thread that does not believe that he or she is of the Scriptural elect. How does that belief occur?”

God in His mercy has made it clear in His Word that the assurance of salvation is granted to any who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and in Him alone for their salvation. Calvinists call this ‘perspicuity.’I am confident the citations to the Word have been provided numerous times in the past.

“Where is it written that, for example, the poster known as esquirette knows that he or she is of the elect?”

In fact, only the one who endures to the end is manifestly saved (citation omitted), so our election individually is not written where you and I may read it, but I pray that my name is written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. The Bible is replete with how the righteous (elect) will behave. We should all be checking ourselves against the standard He has set for us as set forth in, say, Psalm 1. Again, numerous citations omitted.

“If there is no direct message from God - a blinding light on the road to Damascus in the companionship of several friends might do ...”

Surely, we do have the Law and the Prophets, and the Lord Himself stated that these would be sufficient to tell us of the way to Heaven. See Luke 16.

“. . . - that you (the individual) are of that elect now, then either one must contradict the Calvinist teaching that the elect is not all of mankind, or else that Calvinists are Gnostic and not Christian at all.”

True - the term ‘elect’ encompasses not all of mankind, for the Calvinist is not a universalist, but perhaps I misunderstand your point, for it seems that the lack of universality is the notion to which you object.

This is sort of like the Jews being the ‘chosen people.’ Some take that to mean God chose them because they were special, and therefore they were chosen. Quite the contrary. They are special because God chose them.

The elect are chosen by God purely on His own merit and by His own grace and mercy. They are not saved because they are elect. They are elect because they are saved, and that not of themselves. Nothing to boast about, unless they boast in Christ. More citations omitted.


134 posted on 11/01/2010 10:03:33 AM PDT by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: MarkBsnr

“Calvinists and the OSAS crowd tell us of the certainty of their own salvation and excoriate Catholics who have only the hope of salvation. Catholics pray several times during each Mass variations of the prayer that the tax collector prayed and that is a deeply held and fundamental part of Christianity. The various anti Catholics on FR regularly say that they thank God that they are not like the Catholics and that they are indeed of the elect.”

We should all stop writing when we feel adrenaline........


144 posted on 11/01/2010 10:38:07 AM PDT by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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