Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
What do the Gospels say?
Matthew 20: 25 But Jesus summoned them and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and the great ones make their authority over them felt. 26 But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you shall be your servant; 27 whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave.
Mark 9: 33 8 They came to Capernaum and, once inside the house, he began to ask them, "What were you arguing about on the way?" 34 But they remained silent. They had been discussing among themselves on the way who was the greatest. 35 Then he sat down, called the Twelve, and said to them, "If anyone wishes to be first, he shall be the last of all and the servant of all."
Luke 12: 47 That servant who knew his master's will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely; 48 and the servant who was ignorant of his master's will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.
Matthew 13: 12 To anyone who has, more will be given 5 and he will grow rich; from anyone who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
None of these basic teachings of Jesus in any way refer to equality of all men. Some have greater gifts and who are expected to do more than others. We have the first/last scenario.
Matthew 19: 28 19 Jesus said to them, "Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life. 30 20 But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.
Do Catholics also, by this standard, reject the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution? Every man is his own captain, responsible for his own ship.
Have you not heard the Gospel of Calvin in which it is not possible for any man to choose, but every action is dictated by the Reformed God from before the creation of the Universe? I have heard it said many times that the United States Constitution and its equality and freedom for all men comes from Reformed beliefs. Yet how can that be, since there is no freedom under Calvin?
Does that mean that to the Reformed, it doesn't matter if a statement is a blatant and outrageous lie, as long as it conforms to the belief of the elect, that it should be considered true? Sounds like the Reformed version of Borking. Perhaps Kosta, you should feel honoured since you have now joined the ranks of such as Robert Bork attempting to face a hostile Democratic committee opposing his Supreme Court nomination with a barrage of lies, damned lies and innuendo. Something of what they tried to do to Clarence Thomas, as well.
Correct. Another way is on thread after thread asking questions, ignoring the answers, and then claiming that we never answer them, whilst pinging to the committees.
You are tight, but since the practice has been so vigorously defended by the anti-Catholics that I thought you would have no issues with it. The difference is that I did not use it as an opportunity to skillfully lie about any entity or person.
So you have no problems or issues with the trolling and lying, it's just an unacceptable practice for Catholics or for those who have spoken out against it.
"...the restoration of the church is the work of God, and no more depends on the hopes and opinions of men, than the resurrection of the dead, or any other miracle of that description. Here, therefore, we are not to wait for facility of action, either from the will of men, or the temper of the times, but must rush forward through the midst of despair. It is the will of our Master that his gospel be preached. Let us obey his command, and follow whithersoever he calls. What the success will be it is not ours to inquire. Our only duty is to wish for what is best, and beseech it of the Lord in prayer; to strive with all zeal, solicitude, and diligence, to bring about the desired result, and, at the same time, to submit with patience to whatever that result may be." -- John Calvin
This thread celebrates a very controversial division in Christendom.
One is dishonest or extremely naive to pretend that the premises of the headline alone of this thread would not be challenged.
My #4 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2618333/posts?page=4#4is) an intellectual argument noting that the words of Luther posted in #2 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2618333/posts?page=2#2) contradict one main tenet of protestantism.
It is disingenuous to claim that my comment #4 was an instance of “drawing blood”.
And my comment #5 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2618333/posts?page=5#5) was a lame joke referring to a misreading of the headline as referring to Crist in his senate race against tea party favorite Mario Rubio (Headline: “In Crist Alone.” Reply: “No - Rubio all the way!”).
This thread celebrates a very controversial division in Christendom.
One is dishonest or extremely naive to pretend that the premises of the headline alone of this thread would not be challenged.
My #4 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2618333/posts?page=4#4) is an intellectual argument noting that the words of Luther posted in #2 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2618333/posts?page=2#2) contradict one main tenet of protestantism.
It is disingenuous to claim that my comment #4 was an instance of “drawing blood”.
And my comment #5 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2618333/posts?page=5#5) was a lame joke referring to a misreading of the headline as referring to Crist in his senate race against tea party favorite Mario Rubio (Headline: “In Crist Alone.” Reply: “No - Rubio all the way!”).
Citing a known sodomite and murderer as proof the Church needed reforming is not going to gain you any street cred.
2 Peter 2: 1 1 There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled. 3 In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destruction does not sleep.
And if you are one of the self-appointed selected elite elect, you may pray to yourself and thank yourself that you are not Catholic and therefore are exempt from petitioning God for mercy. (see Luke 18 for the words of Christ that the Reformed are exempt from)
You claim I was the first to “draw blood.” Please let me know which of these comments of mine (you can also add my #108 if you wish, though I assume you agree #108 is benign) “draws” blood” rather than simply makes an academic point that draws your ire:
#4: So, according to that quote of Luther, reason alone could suffice. [This is an intellectual argument regarding the headline and disputing a comment]
#5: No way - Rubio all the way! [Attempt at Florida election wordplay humor in response to the headline]
#23: It was the beginning of the long slide into the dark abyss that we see in protestantism today. After all, if Luther can claim that he need only follow his conscience, then Luther’s followers can do the same, and so naturally the non-stop “reformation” began, creating millions of popes - each man his own. [My point: no one can deny that the various protestant sects that have followed Luther’s example of breaking away when conscience calls has led to breathtaking protestant doctrines that accept what everyone previously agreed was biblically prohibited as moral evil – his is the protestant moral abyss to which I refer].
#25: The Reformation gave us rampant divorce, rampant homosexualism, and rampant promiscuity due to the reformed churches’ absolute acceptance and promotion of birth control. Enjoy your party while you can. [Same point: no one can deny that the various protestant sects that have followed Luther’s example of breaking away when conscience calls has led to breathtaking protestant doctrines that accept divorce, homosexualism, birth control, living in sin, condom use by junior high kids, abortion, etc. ].
#26 1. But that is not what Luther said. 2. Your second line is not true; the bible does not address many things that we can easily know through reason alone, but this does not mean that such things are false. Perhaps you ought to say “All reason contradicting Scripture is false.” [This is an intellectual argument regarding the headline and disputing a comment]
#36: That reminds me of what said God to Himself before He created Eve: rib it. (I think I’m gonna croak.) [Attempt at humor]
#47: Protestant doctrine embraces evil. Catholic doctrine rejects evil. And of course, there are sinners whose actions run counter to doctrine. With your logic we would have to conclude that Jesus’ moral teachings were incorrect because most of his audience rejected his moral teachings. Protestant doctrine embraces birth control and gayness and divorce. Catholic doctrine rejects all three. And I follow these doctrines. [Same point: no one can deny that the various protestant sects that have followed Luther’s example of breaking away when conscience calls has led to breathtaking protestant doctrines that claim moral evils are actually moral goods (divorce, homosexualism, birth control, living in sin, condom use by junior high kids, abortion, etc. ) and that Catholic doctrine refuses to change and embrace such evils as good despite the personal sinfulness of its members and even of its clergy.]
But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me." -- John 15:20-21"If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
"It goeth well with the Godly, because they triumph gloriously before God and His angels in all injuries which they suffer...Those persecutions which we must suffer for the testimony of the gospel are remnants of the sufferings of Christ." -- John Calvin, Acts II.115.
“If you are self-appointed as one of the selected elite elect, making God beholden to you, then what need of street cred have you?”
There are so many assumptions in that sentence, I was stunned that you continue to read these threads, and yet continue to intentionally misunderstand what is written on them by the Calvinists, (who remain the object of your evident scorn).
Please note that:
1. Calvinists are not self appointed to anything.
2. The term is not ‘select,’ but ‘elect.’
3. The term ‘elite’ has nothing to do with ‘elect.’
4. The conclusion that God is beholden to anyone is ludicrous.
Mischaracterization is a lie, is it not?
I recall that Luther (founder of your reformation day) wrote about flatulence, feces, and bowels in a manner that causes rational fair-minded people to question the soundness of his theological ideas.
Some say the criteria was to have seen Christ and been commissioned by Him to plant churches etc.Paul qualifies.
Luke 18: 9 He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. 10 "Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' 13 But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' 14 I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
Calvinists and the OSAS crowd tell us of the certainty of their own salvation and excoriate Catholics who have only the hope of salvation. Catholics pray several times during each Mass variations of the prayer that the tax collector prayed and that is a deeply held and fundamental part of Christianity. The various anti Catholics on FR regularly say that they thank God that they are not like the Catholics and that they are indeed of the elect.
Am I really mischaracterizing?
AMEN!
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