Posted on 10/23/2010 6:06:40 PM PDT by papabrody
Jeremiah 32:37-41: “See, I will gather them from all the lands to which I have banished them in My anger and wrath, and in great rage; and I will bring them back to this place and let them dwell secure. They shall be My people, and I will be their God. I will give them a single heart and a single nature to revere Me for all time, and it shall be well with them and their children after them. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them and that I will treat them graciously; and I will put into their hearts reverence for Me, so that they do not turn away from Me. I will delight in treating them graciously, and I will plant them in this land faithfully, with all My heart and soul.”
“All the promises of the Old Testament are *fulfilled* in Christ”
When was this promise fulfilled in Christ? Amos 9:14-15 :
“14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.”
It seems they only read passages of Scripture literally that fit their political ambitions and allegorize the inconvenient ones like:
Roms 11:25-26 ...blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (26) And so all Israel will be saved...
The irony of this is most Jews believe Evangelical Christians are not to be trusted, because we would love to see all Jews come to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, but the real threat is from those churches that hold to Replacement Theology.
AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!!!!
And yet after disciplining Israel God brought a remnant through and eventually returned them to the land.
I agree, but he is correctly stating the teachings of the church is a member of.
Why? The person making the statement is stating the position of his church. Replacement Theology, or Covenant Theology, was first expressed by Origen and then later by Augustine. It became the position of the RCC as this church emerged as the state church.
You are so right. They fear the people who most want to help them, and trust the ones who think they are now spiritual Israel. Whose plans include relocating their present Roman kingdom to Jerusalem. Who truly believe they will bring in the Kingdom for Christ. I've never figured out what these new "spiritual Jews" think is going to happen to the REAL Jews in order that their Roman Kingdom can be relocated to Jerusalem. And I never hear anyone belonging to Replacement Theology talk about the Real Jews and what will happen to them, so I can only assume it must not be good. I pray Israel opens her eyes as to who the real enemy is.
“For what purpose were the Jews chosen? To be the mortal wellspring from which the Messiah would be revealed to the world?”
That is only one of the purposes, surely the greatest, but only one. He also chose them to glorify His name amongst the nations, by fulfilling the promises He made to them in the sight of the nations. Which of course, can only be done if He fulfills His promises, which he most certainly will.
“I can only know God’s purposes for His Chosen People from what is revealed in the Holy Scriptures, and therein I am unable to find any hint as a to a further, unfulfilled purpose in His covenant with the Jews.”
Then you, no offense, need to study the Scriptures a whole lot more.
Amos 9:9-12 :
“9For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
10All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
11In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.”
Jeremiah 23:3-8 :
“3And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.
5Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.”
Romans 11:1-5 :
“1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”
Finally, this portion of the Song of Moses makes clear why the Lord saves this remnant - so that the enemies of Israel would not think they had triumphed over the Lord. Deut. 32:26-27 :
“26I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
27Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the LORD hath not done all this.”
What exactly is being misrepresented. Your archbishop is stating your church's position.
Why can't you just love Jews without the conversion thing? That is the universal problem between us.
Israel was chosen as God's people. Deut 14:2: For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
But it wasn't unconditional. It was conditioned upon obedience.
1 Kings 9:6 But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: 7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:
At Kadesh Barnea after the multitude followed the faithless spies' negative report, God was going to disinherit them.
Num 14:11 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them? 12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.
Again, after God killed Korah and company for their disobedience: But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the LORD. And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the LORD appeared. And Moses and Aaron came before the tabernacle of the congregation. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Get you up from among this congregation, that I may consume them as in a moment. And they fell upon their faces. And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun. And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people. (Num 16:41-47)
These are just a couple of examples where God was about to completely destroy Israel as punishment for sin. Read the book of Numbers for other examples.
I get sick and tired of ignorant people such as you claiming that jews are still the chosen of God. The only way a jew can be chosen of God is if that jew has been saved by becoming a Christian.
And to suggest that Christ is going to restore Jerusalem to Israel is equally as dumb. There isn't going to be anything to restore since earth is going to be consumed in a fervent fire.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (2 Peter 3:10-12)
You need to be careful and better studied.
That's whats so funny. Jews trust RC's much more than Born Again Christians and it is the latter who know God is not done with Israel, but the former believes they have replaced Israel.
Which covenant - Abrahamic or Mosaic? The unconditional one or the conditional one?
Another example.
“The house of Israel, and the house of Juda have made void my covenant, which I made with their fathers.” - Jeremias 11:10
Ask yourself, though, which covenant? The Lord did not make only one covenant with the fathers of the houses of Israel and Judah.
If you look earlier in the same chapter, you will find the answer in verses 3-5:
“3And say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant,
4Which I commanded your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God:
5That I may perform the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then answered I, and said, So be it, O LORD.”
The covenant that the Lord commanded when He brought them out of Egypt was the Mosaic covenant, which was conditional.
Notice He refers in this same section to “the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey”. This is the Abrahamic covenant, which God declares here to be an oath that He swore, not a conditional covenant like the one made during the time of Moses.
Amen, Amen, Amen!
“And yet after disciplining Israel God brought a remnant through and eventually returned them to the land.”
You really aught to go back and look at the verses that specify exactly when and how God will regather the remnant, before you refer to it as something that is already accomplished.
Great question. I have Jewish friends that asked me the same thing, so bear with me it may seem sappy.
Because I don't want to see anyone lost.
Unfortunately, Jews that don't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are going to hell. The Cross changed everything. Abraham's Bosom has been emptied. The only way to be deemed righteous is by believing The Gospel, that Jesus paid the price for you with His death, that He was buried, and that the Father raised Him on the third day.
I have told my Jewish friends the same and they told me that they didn't want to discuss it. I've told them any time they do I will come running.
Let me ask you, why does it make Jews so uncomfortable to have someone witness to them?
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