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To: DelphiUser
I offer to all the opportunity to learn for themselves if the Book of Mormon is true.

Mormons frequently refer people investigating their religion to a promise in the Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:4: "And when ye shall receive these things [the Book of Mormon], I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."

Let's look at that claim.

Moroni 10:4 is not so much of a promise as it is a manipulative device. It promises a particular result if certain terms are met. But the terms reflect on the seeker's integrity as regards both his sincerity and resolve, and on his faith in Christ. To be willing to rely on the promise of this verse as a test for the Book of Mormon's truthfulness one must already have concluded somehow that its instruction is valid and its promise reliable. That is, one must already believe in the "truthfulness" of this verse.

If the verse is true, then the only possible explanation for failing to obtain the result promised is a failure to meet the terms. That is, one must lack a sincere heart, and/or real intent, and/or faith in Christ. If one believes the verse is true then one must obtain the answer promised, or face an embarrassing judgement of one's sincerity, intent, or faith in Christ. The seeker is forced into convincing himself he has had some kind of manifestation from God, just to vindicate his own character. Or worse, he is moved to a frame of mind where he will gladly and indiscriminately embrace any supernatural manifestation as though it were from God.

Plain reason, not to mention all the force of Scripture's revelation of the character of God, testifies that God would not, does not, use such manipulative mind/ego games against the human family to bring them to believe the truth. God does not approve, and truth does not need, such machinations.


742 posted on 10/05/2010 9:37:38 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (We now have confirmation that Barack Obama truly loves poor people. He is creating so many!)
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To: greyfoxx39; Paragon Defender; restornu
I note that you do not reference any scriptures except the Book of Mormon, for the rest you rely on the logic of man, specifically your logic.

From my page
Put our religion to "The Test"

"The Test" is simple, you can't believe what I say, for I may be wrong, you can't believe what Mormon detractors say for again they might be wrong, or lying. So who can we trust? We can trust the Bible, we can trust God, for God is "a God of truth and canst not lie."

The test is contained in First John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
We are supposed to look for Gods messages by trying the spirits, and we will know which is of God because it will testify of Jesus. I have tried the Spirits to know if they would testify of Jesus and the Book of Mormon, and I have received an answer, yes the Book of Mormon is of God and Jesus is the Christ, my Savior, my Lord, my God. I wish that everyone could have this experience, thus, I offer to all a Free Book of Mormon and if you don't already have one, a Free Bible Too. I invite you to cut through all the yea and nay arguments with a simple prayer, I invite you to come unto Jesus Christ my master. The formula is simple, Get a Book of Mormon, Get a Bible. Read both, pray about both, ask God to testify of Jesus and ask God to reveal errors for what they are, and truth for what it is and listen for God's response. The response should contain a testimony of Jesus, or it may not be from God.

There may be those who will encourage you not to pray, they will use various methods to do this, I used to list the many scriptures from the Bible that command us to pray, but I am now only going to quote from the Book of Mormon: Second Nephi 32:8
8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.
The Bible teaches man to Pray, the Book of Mormon teaches men to pray, anyone who teaches something else is not of God.

Friends, brethren, beware of those who teach that God will not answer a sincere prayer from the heart. Seek God. Seek to do good continually, Do good to those who persecute you and despitefully use you. In the end you will in no wise lose your reward for seeking to follow the scriptures.

Amen.
Let's see, links to scriptures in the Bible, Scriptures in the Book of Mormon, offers of a free Book of Mormon, and a Free Bible, and my words of testimony that Jesus is God.

Yours? Warning people away, and a weird logical conundrum concocted which can serve only to confuse honest seekers, and encourages them not to pray for an answer. I wonder why antis never seem to encourage people to pray, and I am not speaking of just anti Mormons, antis of all religions seem to have an aversion to prayer...

Just an observation

Delph

P.S. My Testimony
761 posted on 10/05/2010 11:16:51 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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