Posted on 09/29/2010 3:05:05 PM PDT by zippythepinhead
Atheists and agnostics know more about major world religions than many people of faith, while Mormons can answer more Bible questions than their Catholic and mainline Protestant counterparts.
Those are among the somewhat startling conclusions about religious literacy in America the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion and Public Life drew after surveying 3,412 Americans.
Some of the multiple-choice questions were relatively simple: Where was Jesus born and who led the exodus from Egypt? What religion was Mother Teresa, what day does the Jewish Sabbath begin and what is the name of Islam’s holy book?
Others were more obscure: What is Indonesia’s dominant religion? Which Christians teach that salvation comes through faith alone?
About half the Protestants (53 percent) couldn’t correctly identify Martin Luther as the person whose writings and actions inspired the Protestant Reformation. Fewer than half of Americans (47 percent) knew the Dalai Lama is Buddhist and only 38 percent correctly associated Vishnu and Shiva with Hinduism.
John Morehead, director of the Western Institute for Intercultural Studies in Salt Lake City, had already noted religious illiteracy in the general population as well as in the evangelical community. But he did not expect Mormons to top them in their biblical fluency.
“Mormons tend to emphasize Mormon scriptures like the Book of Mormon rather than the Bible in their devotional life,” Morehead said in an e-mail.
Even some LDS scholars were surprised to find Mormons at the top.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
Eternal Progression Data:
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/etimplications.htm
The Mormon doctrine of eternal progression teaches that God the Father was once a man, who progressed to Godhood through obedience to certain laws and ordinances. Part of this obedience involved getting married to a woman ("The Heavenly Mother"), who gives birth to God’s spirit children, who are sent to earth to inhabit bodies of flesh and bone. These spirit children, if they are Mormons, remain obedient to the laws of the Mormon Church, and are married in the Mormon temple, have the potential to become gods themselves. They will produce spirit children and rule their own planet. This process is then repeated.
The logical implications of this are as follows:
--The present God the Father and Heavenly Mother would themselves have had a Heavenly Father and Mother in existence before them, and they a Heavenly Father and Mother before them, and so on and so fourth. Indeed, not only does this logically follow through in Mormon theology, but many LDS leaders have specifically taught that the present God and Father had a Father above Him, and He above Him, etc. 1
--God the Father would have had to worship and pray to His God and Father as we do to Him.
--If the present God and Father of this planet is worshipped and prayed to by His spirit children, and if Mormon males hope to become gods in the same way, their spirit children would likewise pray to and worship them!
[At this point it is worth bearing in mind that the Bible says nothing about an infinite number of god’s past and god’s to come. On the contrary, Isaiah 43:10 is very clear when God states: "Before me no God was formed and neither will there be one after me." There was no god before God and there will certainly be no gods after Him. He is "the God of gods" (Deut. 10:17; Ps. 136:2; Dan. 2:4, 11:36). That is to say, although there are certainly so called "gods" in existence (1 Cor. 8:5), they are not true God by nature (Gal. 4:8). There is only one true God (John 17:3). ]
--If temple marriage is essential to becoming a god, as Mormons claim, then God the Father would likewise have been required to be married in a temple. Of course, there is nothing at all about this in the Bible.
--Jesus would have to have been married in a temple, otherwise He could not have been exalted and become a god (Christians believe He was always God, and not a god, but The God.). There is nothing at all in the Bible about Jesus being married in a temple, or even married outside a temple. Indeed, the Biblical temples were not even used for temple marriage, but for purification rites, and animal sacrifices.
--Some LDS leaders have not only taught that Jesus was married, but that He was a polygamist! 2
--If families are to be sealed in the temple as a family unit, to be a "family forever", what if one of those family members does not remain obedient to the Mormon faith? How can they remain together as a family, if some members of that family are disobedient?
--Bill McKeever of Mormonism Researched Ministry makes an interesting observation about eternal families. He asks how it can be that a Mormon family can stay together forever in eternity if, for example, the children of that family go on to become gods themselves and rule their own planets? Those family members could not be together if they are each ruling their own planets.
Footnotes
1. "We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).
2."Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).
"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).
"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).
"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346). "One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).
More to follow …
The principle of eternal progression cannot be precisely defined or comprehended, yet it is fundamental to the LDS worldview. The phrase "eternal progression" first occurs in the discourses of Brigham Young. It embodies many concepts taught by Joseph Smith, especially in his King Follett discourse. It is based on the proposition that "there is no such thing as principle, power, wisdom, knowledge, life, position, or anything that can be imagined, that remains stationary—they must increase or decrease" (Young, JD 1:350).
Progression takes many forms. In one sense, eternal progression refers to everything that people learn and experience by their choices as they progress from premortal life, to mortality, to postmortal spirit life, and to a resurrected state in the presence of God.
Personal progression is possible in each of these states, but not the same kind of progression. Progression apparently occurred in the premortal life, for most spirits there chose to follow Christ and some were noble and great, while others chose to follow Lucifer. Entering mortality affords opportunities for further progression. Obtaining a physical body is a crucial step, enabling a person to experience physical sensations of all kinds and to progress in knowledge and understanding, all of which will rise with the person in the Resurrection (D&C 130:18). Brigham Young taught that even in mortality, "We are in eternity" (JD 10:22), and the object of this existence is "to learn to enjoy more, and to increase in knowledge and experience" (JD 14:228). "When we have learned to live according to the full value of the life we now possess, we are prepared for further advancement in the scale of eternal progression—for a more glorious and exalted sphere" (JD 9:168).
Life is never static. "One must progress or retrograde. One cannot stand still. Activity is the law of growth, and growth, progress, is the law of life" (A. Bowen, in Christ's Ideals for Living, O. Tanner, ed., Salt Lake City, 1980, p. 368). A person's attitude about ""eternal progression' will largely determine his philosophy of life…exalting, increasing, expanding and extending broader and broader until we can know as we are known, see as we are seen" (Young, JD 16:165).
At the Resurrection and Judgment, people will be assigned a degree of glory. Further progress is believed possible within each degree. Marriage and family life, however, continue only in the Celestial Kingdom, allowing "eternal increase" through having spirit children (see Eternal Lives, Eternal Increase). "All this and more that cannot enter into our hearts to conceive is promised to the faithful, and are but so many stages in that ceaseless progression of eternal lives" (Young, JD 10:5).
No official Church teaching attempts to specify all the ways in which God progresses in his exalted spheres; "there is no end to [His] works, neither to [His] words" (Moses 1:38). God's glory and power are enhanced as his children progress in glory and power (see Moses 1:39; Young, JD 10:5). Ideas have been advanced to explain how God might progress in knowledge and still be perfect and know all things (see Foreknowledge of God; Omnipotent God).
The concept of eternal progression is a salient feature of the gospel of Jesus Christ, readily distinguishable from traditional Christian theology. The philosophical views of the Middle Ages were basically incompatible with such a concept, and the idea of progress that emerged in the eighteenth-century Enlightenment was that of social evolution (Bury, The Idea of Progress, London, 1932). The traditional Christian view has held that those in heaven enter "a state of eternal, inactive joy. In the presence of God they would worship him and sing praises to him eternally, but nothing more" (Widtsoe, p. 142). Latter-day Saints, however, constantly seek personal and righteous improvement not only by establishing Zion in this world, but by anticipating the continuation of progression eternally.
Bibliography
Widtsoe, John A. "Is Progress Eternal or Is There Progress in Heaven?" IE 54 (Mar. 1951):142; see also Evidences and Reconciliations, pp. 179-85, Salt Lake City, 1960.
Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 1, Eternal Progression Copyright © 1992 by Macmillan Publishing Company
Your 'prophets' are quoted in the footnotes above. Do you support their assertions, Mormon? Do you really believe polytheism is fundamental Christian doctrine, Mormon?
Is that you, Horton? LOL
BTW, what is going on, the Morg are being particular arrogant (defensive) and looks like they're clearing the bench and playing the whole team.
Was the report at the conference that bad? Did the “prophets” bounce a check to “Marble World” for the next Temple, or did the locals not have enough gold in their mouths?
Typical apologist, ignore, spin, parse, obfuscate, omit, deflect etc.
What is it with you guys? You can’t even carry on a conversation or even make an attempt at discussion without being puerile and making it personal. What a sorry lot.
You are really good at faded, colored letters, bullet points, cute phrases but not much else.
I give out the cupie doll awards so - mine.
The petulant and puerile behavior has been going on for some time, but they’ve ramped it up of late.
When you’re on the losing end of an argument, make it personal, ridicule the poster, create red herrings, strawmen. Whatever it takes to cause one to lose focus on the topic.
Godwin’s law can’t be far behind.
Maybe I’ll make up Z’s law, the first mormon to refer to the anti’s as the Taliban or jihadist wins.
Waiting to see who’s the first...
Huh? Um, the dark ages ended with the Renaissance in the 14th Century.
By 1830 we were at the general end of the First Industrial Revolution...
So, yeah, you did imagine that...
Smith may not have been on earth, he could have flown up to the moon and had dinner with those Quaker like people and got some information.
For the “handles” or whatever you want to call them, those vested socially and economically who may or may not actually really believe the doctrine or even more believe at all, the cash cow is getting a little thinner each passing day and it's getting less to graze on.
Gold fillings can only go so far...
The Bible is not about semantics.
[Stourme corrects]
No, but your argument is.
It is precise in every way this includes prophecy.
Ohhh... Well.. let's take a look at that statement.
Acts 9: 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22: 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Acts 26: 13 - 14 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
Three different and contradictory accounts of the same event... in your Bible... That doesn't look all that precise to me.
It could not be God's word otherwise.
If you're true to your word you'll have to abandon the Bible as God's word, huh? By your own words you condem the Bible... or is it just... semantics?
The account of the birth of Christ in the Book of Mormon was given by people who had never been to Jerusalem and had never heard of Bethlaham. But they knew of Jerusalem from the records that were passed down to them. Understand the audiance of who they are speaking. It's in the land of Jerusalem..Over there where we originally came from.
Makes perfect sense...
LOL
rotflaicgu
No, in my reality - guaranteed by the bible
A hoot laugh place marker
I think the colors are after effects from the use of peep stones...
Perfect !!! You fell right into my trap. You sure don't like the Bible do you? You think it is not accurate and so that helps you buy into Joseph Smith's heresy. You take verses out of context in the Bible to support what you think is a more accurate account by the peepstone charlatan Joseph Smith.
All I have to do is look at Joseph Smith's life to determine that Joseph Smith is no Moses and certainly by far no Jesus.
And I could go on and on about the doctrine of the Mormon Church, and its other leaders like Brigham Young (for example his blood atonement heresy) etc. Which are in direct conflict with Biblical principles.
But hey you think the Book of Mormon (Joseph Smith) is more accurate than the Bible.
Admit that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. And that he had to be or Jesus is not the Messiah.
Now let me get back to my history book about Joseph Smith's banking fraud while leading the LDS Church in Kirtland Ohio...
You can’t even carry on a conversation or even make an attempt
[Stourme consoles]
I'm sorry you chose to let your feelings be hurt. Personally I choose not to be offended. I learned that at Church. You should try it.
Here something from me to you:
He offered the follow Bible passages, which he then mischaracterized ... I've seen Delph do this same deceit/trick, so this is going to be easy this second time dealing with it:
Acts 9: 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22: 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Acts 26: 13 - 14 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue,
First, note the nasty 'in your Bible' approach of the Mormon, seeking to make the Bible a not credible source so his cultish fictions can be given 'credulity'. Then notice whom is relating the event and to whom. Lastly, there is no reason to believe that Jesus speaking directly to Saul would be understood by those to whom Jesus was not speaking.
In the first passage, Luke is relating the story. In the second passage, it is Paul relating the story from his perspective, speaking to fellow Christians/Jews. In the third passage, Paul is relating his experience to a non-Christian, and his relating the story does not contradict what he told the fellow Christians in the second passage.
It is interesting that Mormons, when cornered, do not answer questions which expose the polytheism of their religion (notice the apologist ignores the eternal progression questions, too much exposure of their heresies there), but go to extraordinary lengths to try, try mind you, to discredit the Bible!
Mormonism is a cult started by a sexual predator who played his version of divination using a peepstone to con farmers over imagined buried treasure, and who claimed to have translated an Egypotian papri, but his 'translation' has been proven completely fraudulent.
This same conman, Joseph Smith, supposedly translated the King James Bible, back into King James English; with no texts from the Greek or Hebrew to consult, adding and changing thousands of words; at the end of the Book of Genesis fabricated eight hundred plus words to manufacture a prophecy of his coming in these latter days! He even added to the Book of the Revelation, in complete contradiction to the warniung therein. He didn't live much longer after that demonic ploy, BTW.
Yet Mormons even today try to make the Abraham fiction, from the Egyptian dealing with the dead papri, credible.
It is sad that these poor souls are so deeply blinded in this cult that they sacrifice their credibility to defend the heresies and false doctrines (like eternal progression where man becomes god and God The Father Almighty was once a mere mortal), and stoop so low as to attack the Bible if it seems they can score some point that their fictional novel from Smith might address differently.
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