"You did not have Jesus lay his hands on you and give you the priesthood." Neither did Joseph Smith...and by extension, neither did any mormon.
Posted on 09/29/2010 3:05:05 PM PDT by zippythepinhead
JFTR it’s not about me, it’s about God.
Neither wants to be called a Mormon.
Yet you continue to respond to my posts, even when they were no addressed to you...
Being called a “typical Mormon” is a complement.
I never think I have outsmarted you, God has, I just repeat his words.
You’re too nervy. You can ask me questions, but didn’t.
I’ll comment now on what you’ve written. Firstly, I agree with you that all scripture is given for our instruction, but in what specifically?
Many Christians get Paul’s words wrong. He isn’t arguing against “law” per se, but the hypocritical abuse or misuse of it. Take a second look at Paul. Christ expects us to observe laws, to make sacrifices and to start with baptism as an ordinance. Of course it all starts with Jesus.
Go to the Greek translation of Paul’s attacks on legalism. There isn’t a word for legalism, not the modern epithet for it, in Greek. Paul chooses his Greek carefully and wisely. Read up on that.
Paul is really arguing that:
1. Salvation comes of Christ and by none other. Faith in him leads the way.
2. Nothing we can do will save ourselves. This is subtle.
3. We do have something to do. What is it?
4. Obedience is a requirement of Salvation. Obedience to what?
Is there an apparent conflict in the above?
Paul cannot argue against his master who said, “If you love me, obey my commandments.” New Living Translation (©2007)John 14:15
It cannot be both.
Did you actually type demons? LOL.
You cannot accuse me of any evil, other than disagreeing with what you believe.
I serve and love my master, Jesus Christ.
So you don’t believe the Torah? Just the 10 Commandments?
Why didn’t God correct it in the OT then? Why let the Jews live that way for centuries?
I think that the Mitzvot is there because the Israelites were so rebellious and mischievous that they needed specifics. They got caught up in legalism and killed their own God over it.
Do they know “and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against (my Church)”?
Same ole same ole...
Christ expects us to observe laws, to make sacrifices and to start with baptism as an ordinance. Of course it all starts with Jesus.
That part seems to not be “translated correctly”...
You did not have Jesus lay his hands on you and give you the priesthood, you can't assume the authority by yourself...
Then:
Priesthood has nothing to do with it.
Not giving me much to work with there DU, though I understand the failure of the logic, even the best cannot prevail when supporting the unsupportable day after day......
As far as "denigrating" another man's faith, nice run to the victim hood bit, but seeing as how the very founding of Mormonism was based on the denigration of Christianity, a fact very aptly demonstrated by the words of Joseph Smith and those who followed him, that charge as well as any claim of a "holy war" (General Joe Smith anyone?) rings a bit hollow...
Mormonism apologetics is demonically directed. BY changing in subtle ways what the Gospel teaches, the reader is led astray, to consider as reasonable that which is blasphemous.
Paul stated clearly that the law could save no one. And the commandments from Jesus were to love the Lord your God above all and to love your neighbor as you would love yourself. In striving to keep the law of Moses, the Jew was faithing in the saving power of God. You see, the ten commandments are a clear thoughlimited definition of God's nature. Humans had that nature in their human spirit before the fall. After the fall, the light of the human spirit was gone. Through faithing in Christ and only through faith Christ's atonement the 'light' gets switched on again. The law could not switch it on. Once the light is on again, we can dim it by disobedience to the leadership of His Holy Spirit, but we cannot switch it off. Jesus made this promise to the believer. Mormonism cannot cancel that promise.
Jesus did not teach to follow 613 Jewish laws in order to be worthy of His sacrifice on the Cross, nor to follow 613 laws after being Born Again of the Spirit. Had He done so, the Pharisees would have embraced Him instead of killing him via Roman execution, and the Judaisers would have been Paul's assistants, not his nemesis.
So, I will decline to dart down the darkening alley to which you invite my inspection. Ordinances are man-made behaviors. Jesus did not put any preconditions upon being Born Again, as the work God commands so adequately shows yet you chose to try and pervert in order to make room for Mormon legalism.
Your mormonism's demonic apologetics asks, in what seems such an innocent way, "We do have something to do. What is it? ... Obedience is a requirement of Salvation. Obedience to what?" You have been shown what God commands, and that is precisely what the human soul must obey for salvation in Christ Jesus: believe on Him, that's all.
Once truly born again, His Spirit leads your human soul in all things where you obey Him, and that isn't keeping 613 laws to prevent satan from snatching your salvation away! Jesus promised that those who are His are in His hand and no one can snatch them out.
Mormonism seeks to get the mind into a darkened alley, to consider as if reasonable that there is something else God in the person of Jesus didn't offer in the answer Jesus gave to your question ... as if God lies by omission! Sorry, that is demonic inveigling methodology. Get thee behind me, Satan.
What is it in Reformed Egyptian?
Pulled straight from the hat...
"You did not have Jesus lay his hands on you and give you the priesthood." Neither did Joseph Smith...and by extension, neither did any mormon.
For example it is known when Christ is talking about “brothers” he is most oft addressing those in the fold. Does that mean he is not also speaking of our fellow man at times, no, but again when one sees the ENITRETY of the surrounding context we know the of whom he is speaking.
If all men are our “brothers” and we are not to question what our brothers do or say, or what they may represent, then why would there be admonitions about false teachers and prophets? Why would the Bible tell us to snatch from the fire those caught in false paths away from Christ? Why the great commission to go ye unto all the world? If we are to not judge what those who are straying from or not even on the path of Christ then how can we even begin to spread the word?
Indeed from a LDS perspective your own words mean that the 52,000 missionaries need to turn around now and head home for in bringing the “true faith” to others they are judging that their marks are wrong, denigrating the faith they currently have.
All men and women who have accepted Christ, the correct one, are my brothers and sisters and I will not question their hearts, though, as allowed, I will question their external actions and words if they run counter to that of God. It is our duty to each other lest one strays. Again read the Book of Jude, it has clear examples of this.
Ironically the same courtesy is extend to you in many ways, for you bring us many questionable words and ideas. For all I know you may well be a Baptist playing the devil's advocate, but all we have to go on is what you say how you represent yourself and what you say you stand for, which is clearly in contradiction to the words of Christ. If that is taken personally, perhaps saying nothing is better, for as long as one tries to run counter to the body of Christ and lead men astray the fight will be joined...
1 John 3 is about faith and works. It calls for us to observe commandments (laws), make sacrifices (love one another - not the easiest), and it calls for constant action. Of course it all starts with Jesus the Christ.
You've left a lot out and lost the context.
Here's how it reads:
4 Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness, 5 and ye have known that he was manifested that our sins he may take away, and sin is not in him; 6 every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him, nor known him. 7 Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous, 8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil; 9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. 10 In this manifest are the children of God, and the children of the devil; every one who is not doing righteousness, is not of God, and he who is not loving his brother,
11 because this is the message that ye did hear from the beginning, that we may love one another, 12 not as Cain -- of the evil one he was, and he did slay his brother, and wherefore did he slay him? because his works were evil, and those of his brother righteous.
13 Do not wonder, my brethren, if the world doth hate you; 14 we -- we have known that we have passed out of the death to the life, because we love the brethren; he who is not loving the brother doth remain in the death. 15 Every one who is hating his brother -- a man-killer he is, and ye have known that no man-killer hath life age-during in him remaining, 16 in this we have known the love, because he for us his life did lay down, and we ought for the brethren the lives to lay down; 17 and whoever may have the goods of the world, and may view his brother having need, and may shut up his bowels from him -- how doth the love of God remain in him? 18 My little children, may we not love in word nor in tongue, but in word and in truth! 19 and in this we know that of the truth we are, and before Him we shall assure our hearts, 20 because if our heart may condemn -- because greater is God than our heart, and He doth know all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart may not condemn us, we have boldness toward God, 22 and whatever we may ask, we receive from Him, because His commands we keep, and the things pleasing before Him we do,
23 and this is His command, that we may believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and may love one another, even as He did give command to us, 24 and he who is keeping His commands, in Him he doth remain, and He in him; and in this we know that He doth remain in us, from the Spirit that He gave us.
NB: Verses 11 & 12. Abel is righteous pre-Mosaic Law, pre-Noachide Law, and apparently right out of the Garden. Interesting stuff, if you're willing to follow it.
Be wary of trying to find what you want in the Bible. That's eisegesis and that's the wrong path.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.