Posted on 09/01/2010 6:05:23 AM PDT by nhoward14
Sure, it makes perfect sense. I remember reading in school about the time 1/3 of the world’s population died and the waters all turned poisonous back in 70 AD.
I’m still rather mystified by the focus of so much energy and effort in trying to interpret the literal meaning of Revelations. The book is obviously not clear in its prophecy nor does it relay anything more relevant to salvation that isn’t expressed in the Gospels.
Anymore than one can "trust" the novel "Peter Pan" or any other fairy stories.
Like a thief in the night means that he wont show up announced. Ie- it wont be something where someone says “ The Lord will be here tomorrow at 5”
It could be 2 minutes from now and we wont know it until it happens.
Having said that, scripture is very clear on the conditions of the earth when he returns, and it sure seems the earth is getting to that point of birth pains- Can’t you feel it? . A LOT of Christians( Myself included) are seeing and feeling things occur around them that are making it fairly clear the time if drawing near.
From a standpoint of prophecy ( of which I’m not an expert) , it sure seems like all the prophecies needing to be fulfilled before his return have recently been fulfilled for the first time in history.
We can trust Scripture including revelations- Its divinely inspired.
We should also be aware though of the following....
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written
in this book.”
Revelations 22:18-19
As for Gods timing being “soon” 2000 years later, God is outside of Time.
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” 2 Peter 3:8
Christ is coming back soon. I don’t know if that means today, next week, 10 years, or one hundred years from now, but its happening.
And That is Good news - ! Be vigilant in prayer and deeds.
Be ready to meet him and be of faithful heart- Spread the word :-)
“Also, you’re operating under the false assumption that the early Christians had some great fear of being executed by Nero. Being executed would make them a martyr, and the early Christians seems quite willing to make that sacrifice for God. I don’t know of any other examples where the Apostles and early Christian leaders refused to speak the plain truth for fear of execution, do you?”
I think you need to check your history on this, as there were many Christians who denounced their belief in Christ to avoid being martyred. There was a heated debate after the persecutions were over whether or not to allow these people back into the church because of it.
Discussion you got!
Forget trying to understand Revelation. Be blessed reading it, accept not understanding it, just ask the Lord to show Himself to you as you read.
THERE IS ONLY ONE THING IMPORTANT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HIS 2ND
COMING!!!!!!!
BE READY!!!!!
We don’t know when He is coming, that msg. is repeated many times. To try to guess when is a deception, an error. It detours us from the main point: we need to be ready! Some views cause us to take an attitude strongly warned against: “my master is not coming for a long time.....” which then prevents us from being prepared.
Revelation is first a “revelation of Jesus Christ”, of WHO HE IS. Chew on Chapter 1 at length. Chew on Ch. 2 & 3 to see what we need to be cleansed and purged from, to be ready.
Live like He is coming in the next hour, next minute, next day.
“The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.” DeVerne Fromke
All else is to detour us from the main thing, thus preventing us from being ready.
And this time, it isn’t just my opinion. This is fact.
arlis
It's called "symbolism", dude. I guess you slept through that in school? Certainly a goodly portion of the residents of Jerusalem perished when the Romans destroyed the city and the Temple. The entire book is symbolic. John begins the book describing several things which are then revealed to be SYMBOLIC of something else.
John saw "seven golden lampstands" and Christ held "seven stars". the lampstands are revealed to be "the seven churches" and the stars are "angels of the seven churches". He lays the ground work for using symbolic imagery at the beginning of the book. the "Beast" is symbolic, as is the "Harlot", etc.
“THERE IS ONLY ONE THING IMPORTANT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HIS 2ND
COMING!!!!!!!
BE READY!!!!!”
Exactly!! We all face our book of Revelation personally, either at his second coming or at our death. It will not matter whether we understood the meaning of Revelations, but did we believe. Did we fight the good fight, finish the race, keep the faith.
I think we sometimes miss the main point of Revelations...as with the old and new testament 'Revelations' indeed reveals the Christ. The description of Christ is awesome...as a victor HE comes. Look for Christ as you read....He fills the pages.
Sorry, but God is not duplicitous. And that is exactly what He would be if he did as you propose.
"Too cute by half . . . ", "You're the one who is nuts . . ." etc.
Not much of a discussion.
Almost all the argument the poster is getting is along the lines of "you're wrong, because I say so!"
My takeaways from the Book of Revalation:
1. God and his army win in the end.
2. If Dad and Mom are out of town and you don’t know when they are coming back, don’t throw any wild parties, keep the house clean so when they do come back you wont get grounded.
3. If a woman is engaged to a man, she should not be sleeping around because if she is and gets caught, the wedding plans are pretty much canceled.
4. Love God, family, others, even when it’s not convenient for you to do so. If you are doing this, you will never get caught red handed being naughty.
Yes, Revelation is the truth.
Meaning, when you are persecuted you will be saved by Jesus Christ. Justice in heaven.
I think some people need Revelation to prove the existence of Christ. To believe in the apocryphal predictions gives them hope and a road map to confirm their faith.
Sorry, but that is the history of this book.
Per martyrdom, there were many Christians that feared persecution. That’s why, in the Council of Nicea, they decided not to excommunicate those who did not stand up to their fear, as was originally done in the church.
“Per martyrdom, there were many Christians that feared persecution. That’s why, in the Council of Nicea, they decided not to excommunicate those who did not stand up to their fear, as was originally done in the church.”
That is exactly right.
Revelation has always been a mystery to me. I’ve always felt that Revelation was a apocalyptic story of the Fall of Rome and redemption of the Martyrs written at a time when early Christians needed some encouragement. When did the idea of Rapture start and and which scriptures speak of Rapture or Tribulation?
This is long but I am trying to address each of your points. However, if you want to truly understand Revelation and be blown away, David Jeremiah (solid prolific teacher) just finished teaching on it. I own the series (”Escape the Coming Night”—it is 45 CDs—no joke—but is thrilling.) I have lent it four times and each person has listened to all of it—it’s that good. You are in luck though—they either sell it (Go to DavidJeremiah.org and search for the series by name. Volumes 1-4.) or you can listen to it in the radio archives for free (Go to Radio, Archives and Schedule, and listen beginning in February).
If you are restless in your spirit…God may be prompting you do to something about it to get those questions answered for your sake and the sake of others.
Revelation can be confusing if you 1) haven’t studied it with someone who knows the history and language of that day (e.g., the concept of scrolls and last testaments, background on the seven churches), 2) don’t have a solid grasp of bible events or prophecy, and 3) know that John is seeing (supernaturally) events occurring on the earth and in heaven (about every other chapter changes setting).
John: If you want to know if someone is crazy look at their words and actions in all areas of their life. In the bible, John is a very very credible and reliable person. Why then would he suddenly be crazy? Plus look at the detail and facts he includes in a very coherent manner. John was Jesus’ most beloved disciple. He was not crazy.
About the Jews and what they expected: In the bible, the Messiah comes two times-—first as a suffering servant to die for our sin and then as the King—to take the world back and rule it forever. The Jews of that time saw the prophecies about the King but somehow missed the suffering servant role. Read Isaiah 53. this is the part many of them don’t get. It’s like two mountains—one behind the other....they look like one mountain from a distance but when you get close up, you realize there are two. Jesus will come twice in two very different situations. They must not have gotten the prophecies (some did though) because there are several hundred about his birth and death as the savior. Then there are another set about his final coming.
Confusion about two final events: There are also two events in prophecy that people confuse. The rapture (in which Jesus does not return to the earth but “in a twinkling of an eye” transports us to heaven”) and the final return (the Battle of Armageddon and when he stands on the temple mount and settles the score once and for all). Christians will hear his call at the Rapture and the world will only see the results of it, yet when he returns in the Second Coming, the whole world will see it (and many cry for the rocks to hide them when they see him). It’s hard to keep those straight unless you study them. Some of the events of Matt 24/25 are sometimes attributed to the rapture—but actually address latter events.
Millenium versus Heaven: It’s also hard to understand which prophecies deal with the millenium (the literal thousand year reign of christ on the earth) and heaven/eternity.
About gibberish: the bible says that Satan and non-spiritual people already don’t get what is written about his plans (in prophecies) because they don’t perceive spiritual things. It’s already in gibberish to them. But THIS IS IMPORTANT—prophecy is given as a warning for the people who live in the time in which the events will unfold so they will turn and repent. I believe THIS is why so many people are studying and understanding revelation—this is a relatively new phenomenon. I believe it was written for our time. The bibles has over 2000 prophecies (many very specific). 2/3 have been fulfilled. The rest are truly coming together right before our eyes….beginning with the return of Israel to its land.
(Matthew 24:32-35) “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
Many solid teachers interpret this chapter to mean that the generation that sees Israel become a nation (1948) will see all the bible prophecies fulfilled. If that is so....then we might be the final generation.
hope you get the answers you desire.
...but John wasn't one of them.
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