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To: MarkBsnr
Did you mean to say "developed in the fourth century?

Negative; the Church worked out the Trinitarian formula over at least two centuries.

Not correct. The so-called "Trinitarian Formula" was a subject of fierce debate, settled on only in the First Ecumenical Council called by the first real leader of the Catholic Church - Constantine.

Aside from the baptismal formulation in Matthew, which you so very well expound on, there is nothing explicit. The very tag of Unitarianism means one God and no 'personages', if I understand the tag correctly. Would you consider that correct?

Understand it any way you wish. Even though many Catholics have told me what I believe, I have said it all with "In any event, I accept Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

I had not thought that you considered the Pauline epistles so highly (even more if you consider Acts, written by Luke, first a Petrine apostle, then a Pauline one) and take as much from Paul as proofs of your faith. Very interesting.

I think no more of Paul than any of the New Testament personages. He was; however, unique in that he was chosen specifically by Jesus to preach to the Gentiles.

Paul was the big "I" but he was careful to distinguish when he was speaking for Jesus and not the big "I".

I am surprised that the Catholics on this forum don't have a more positive outlook toward Paul. After all, he did relegate women to second class status in keeping with the official position of the Catholic Church.

8,492 posted on 10/04/2010 10:18:46 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: OLD REGGIE
Not correct. The so-called "Trinitarian Formula" was a subject of fierce debate, settled on only in the First Ecumenical Council called by the first real leader of the Catholic Church - Constantine.

The formula may have been settled on in the Nicene Councils, but it was kinda sorta understood going all the way back to the Apostles. The first real leader of the Catholic Church was Jesus, not Constantine. He was not a leader - he merely relaxed the persecutions of Christians and tried to keep order in his Empire.

Understand it any way you wish. Even though many Catholics have told me what I believe, I have said it all with "In any event, I accept Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

Hmm. Then to you the Father is greater than the Son because the Father has been able to give the authority. No Trinitarian nonsense for this Unitarian, right?

I think no more of Paul than any of the New Testament personages. He was; however, unique in that he was chosen specifically by Jesus to preach to the Gentiles.

For a preacher to the Gentiles, he sure spent a lot of time preaching to / antagonizing the Jews.

Paul was the big "I" but he was careful to distinguish when he was speaking for Jesus and not the big "I".

He did maintain both arrogance and inferiority complex through his missions, I'll give you that.

I am surprised that the Catholics on this forum don't have a more positive outlook toward Paul. After all, he did relegate women to second class status in keeping with the official position of the Catholic Church.

You misunderstand us. We reverence Paul. We most certainly do not worship a Paulian demiurge, elevated to god status by heretics. And we do not elevate Paul above Jesus whatsoever.

8,502 posted on 10/04/2010 10:48:56 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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