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To: kosta50; 1000 silverlings; boatbums; count-your-change; OLD REGGIE; HarleyD; wmfights; ...
Even if works were not a factor, or a condition associated with salvation, faith alone is a condition necessary for salvation, along with baptism, etc. But so are the words, deeds, conduct, etc.

Faith is a gift. The rest of your list are fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Paul makes it clear (and Protestants never quote those verses ad nauseum like the banal ones that are doctrinally approved) that to him a Christian who is worthy of the kingdom of heaven is "spotless" in his heart, intention, deeds, conduct, walk, as well as faith, and, honestly, I have yet to see one.

And yet no one is "spotless" but Christ. But Paul still sees Christians who are saved by grace. So how does that work? By Christ's "spotlessness" being imputed to the believer. Therefore there is no boasting among Christians because their own piety didn't earn the prize; Christ earned it for them and gave it to them simply because it pleased His Father to do so.

The bad news is that, even according to the Protestant demigod Paul, God will judge you by your deeds

You continue to display a vast ignorance of what "justification" means. God does not declare our own works righteous, because all have sinned. God declares men righteous on the basis of the good work of Christ within them, freely given by God to whom He will for His own good pleasure. (cue the continuing complaint about God acting according to His own "good pleasure.")

There is this banal repetition of the same old same old, Dr. E.

Well, it's a repetition anyway. Hope eternal.

God wants his people to be pristine and dead to sin and ungliness and immorality and lies, etc.

You bet. And with the free, unearned gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, men will be able to resist such temptations. Are Christians perfect? Nope, as Paul tells us. If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. But by His grace, we persevere.

The idea of a sure comfy first class limo ride to heaven with Christ carrying your luggage is a fairytale

You sound like Mother Teresa, not Scripture.

"(Jesus) who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." -- 1 Peter 2:24

Protestants, however, seem certian she is in hell.

Nope. Protestants say they hope she came to faith in Christ before her last breathe because without that faith she is in a whole lot of hurt.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." -- Hebrews 11:6

That sentence is either fact or fiction.

7,074 posted on 09/27/2010 9:27:25 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7; OLD REGGIE; stfassisi; MarkBsnr; Judith Anne; D-fendr; 1000 silverlings
Faith is a gift. The rest of your list are fruits of the Holy Spirit.

It's not my list, but Paul's, and it lists doesn't list "fruits of the Holy Spirit" but sinful acts (works) that will keep you from going to heaven if you continue in them, and I have yet to see a Christian who doesn't continue in them.

And yet no one is "spotless" but Christ. But Paul still sees Christians who are saved by grace. So how does that work? 

It "works" by God forgiving you when you accept faith (justification), provided you do not continue in sin and walk after Christ, as Paul says clearly, just as that latter-day add-on to John's Gospel says "I do not condemn you either. Go and sin no more." [see Pericope Adulterae]

7,122 posted on 09/28/2010 8:13:19 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7; OLD REGGIE; stfassisi; MarkBsnr; Judith Anne; D-fendr; 1000 silverlings
You continue to display a vast ignorance of what "justification" means.

Really?

God declares men righteous on the basis of the good work of Christ within them

In western theology, God declares you innocent (just) when you accept faith. Your sins up to that point are forgiven and you are given a new life as a new person (in other words, your rap sheet is wiped clean), a clean slate, when in fact you deserve none of it.

That's why it's called God's mercy (hello!), a pardon. Provided you continue this new life dead to sin,  you are acceptable to God. But not if you contionue to sin.

Paul makes it very clear that you must continue to be spotless now that you were born again spotless, that you proclaim your faithfulness to God, and are able, and obligated to make choices pleasing to God—because you, a slave to righteousness !

Your faith is your get-out-of-jail card paid for by Christ. It's not a do-whatever-you-wish pass, and Paul makes that very clear in those verses I gave you; the message is:  stop sinning and imitate Christ" or you will not make it into the kingdom of heaven.

You bet. And with the free, unearned gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, men will be able to resist such temptations

When? Being a slave to righteousness, a Christian cannot but make choices that please God, just as one who is a slave to wickedness can never please God. There is nothing in-between provided for in the Bible; you can not serve two masters, but you are a slave either to one or the other. Either you sin or you don't.

So, Christians who continue to sin are not slaves to righteousness and that means their faith is not true faith or else they would no longer be able to sin; they would be dead to sin, as Paul says. And I have to yet to see a Christian who is dead to sin (and walks on water).

7,124 posted on 09/28/2010 8:25:27 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7; OLD REGGIE; stfassisi; MarkBsnr; Judith Anne; D-fendr; 1000 silverlings
(Jesus) who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." -- 1 Peter 2:24

Except that Christians I have known and known of are not dead to sins. So, I don't know why they think this verse would apply to them unless they are in denial.

Nope. Protestants say they hope she came to faith in Christ before her last breathe because without that faith she is in a whole lot of hurt.

Again, it's up to God and you must believe that with God everything is possible and that he is the final arbiter of all things and that it is not our business to speculate where Mother Theresa's soul is. If anything, a true Christian can only say "God have mercy on us sinners," and "Thy will be done."

7,125 posted on 09/28/2010 8:42:45 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7; OLD REGGIE; stfassisi; MarkBsnr; Judith Anne; D-fendr; 1000 silverlings
Are Christians perfect? Nope, as Paul tells us. If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. But by His grace, we persevere.

No, by his grace you are not condemned (yet), even though you deserve it. Paul tells you that those Christians who continue to sin (cheat God) will not make it to the kingdom of heaven. Those who are faithful (those who are true to God) will not cheat God, just as the faithful spouse will not cheat her loved one.

You can't be faithful a little bit; you are either faithful or you are not. You either cheat or you don't. Do you cheat God? If you do, how can you be "faithful" to him? 

And Paul is telling you that if you continue to sin there is no faith in you. And there is no heaven for you. Yes, if you are faithful you are saved. But you can't be faithful and cheat (sin).

Your are told "Go and sin no more." "Be perfect (faithful) as your Father in heaven is perfect." Otherwise one is only impersonating a Christian.

7,133 posted on 09/28/2010 9:27:36 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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