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To: MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg
Negative. She was not an unbeliever; she, following in a similar experience to some of the great Christian mystics such as Mother Teresa is not the only modern saint to have undergone such a trial of faith; one thinks also of precursors like St. Paul of the Cross, and St. Jane Frances de Chantal (1572-1641), and Ste. Thérèse of Lisieux (1873-1897), the French Carmelite famous for her “Little Way.”
She had no atheism or unbelief; she had an intense spiritual struggle which many people are spared. She endured to the very end, as Jesus and Paul and indeed, much of the NT message teaches us. I don't find her to be worthy of the contempt shown by many. I see the depth of her struggles, comparing them to the fatuous and sneering smugness of the OSAS crowd or the predestination crowd, and find her, not them, as Paul tells us, to imitate him as he imitates Christ.

Could you show us some Nt examples of doubt and disbelief in the disciples after Pentecost?

Mother Teresa was a poor unsaved , very nice lady that hopped work would take her to God if there was one..

2 Corth 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God.

Those apostles were tortured and murdered and never had a "dark night of the soul"..Because they Knew that they knew... Poor Mother Teresa had no assurance

6,587 posted on 09/21/2010 4:25:40 PM PDT by RnMomof7 (Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.)
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To: RnMomof7
Those apostles were tortured and murdered and never had a "dark night of the soul".

Christ did. Eli, Eli, lema sabacthani -- what Chesterton describes as the awful time "when God was forsaken of God."

In any case the apostles didn't leave diaries.

6,589 posted on 09/21/2010 4:43:38 PM PDT by maryz
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To: RnMomof7
Could you show us some Nt examples of doubt and disbelief in the disciples after Pentecost?

Do you mean the 11, the 12 or any of the wider range of disciples?

Mother Teresa was a poor unsaved , very nice lady that hopped work would take her to God if there was one..

How do you know that she us unsaved.

Luke 6:20 10 11 And raising his eyes toward his disciples he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God is yours. 21 Blessed are you who are now hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh. 22 Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude and insult you, and denounce your name as evil on account of the Son of Man. 23 Rejoice and leap for joy on that day! Behold, your reward will be great in heaven. For their ancestors treated the prophets in the same way.

24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. 25 But woe to you who are filled now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will grieve and weep. 26 Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.

27 12 "But to you who hear I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well, and from the person who takes your cloak, do not withhold even your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you, and from the one who takes what is yours do not demand it back.

31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount. 35 But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.

37 13 "Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. 38 Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you."

39 And he told them a parable, "Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will not both fall into a pit? 40 No disciple is superior to the teacher; but when fully trained, every disciple will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove that splinter in your eye,' when you do not even notice the wooden beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! Remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter in your brother's eye.

Mother Teresa fits the words of Jesus very well. You say that she is unsaved. These words say that as you judge, so are you judged. Mother Teresa gave her very life to the poor and the downtrodden even though she had doubts and felt as if she might have been abandoned. Even Jesus gave a cry of despair:

Matthew 27: 45 27 From noon onward, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 46 And about three o'clock Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" 28 which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

47 29 Some of the bystanders who heard it said, "This one is calling for Elijah." 48 Immediately one of them ran to get a sponge; he soaked it in wine, and putting it on a reed, gave it to him to drink. 49 But the rest said, "Wait, let us see if Elijah comes to save him."

50 30 But Jesus cried out again in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.

Is Mother Teresa held to higher standards than Jesus by the Reformed?

Those apostles were tortured and murdered and never had a "dark night of the soul"..Because they Knew that they knew... Poor Mother Teresa had no assurance

The Apostles spent three miracle-filled years with Jesus and still they had doubts...

6,601 posted on 09/21/2010 5:28:07 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Caholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: RnMomof7
Mother Teresa was a poor unsaved , very nice lady that hopped work would take her to God if there was one..

Who told you about Mother Teresa's salvation? Who told you that she hoped work would take her to God? The arrogance of presuming to know the state of another's soul is breath-taking. How shallow must one be, to claim to know the mind of a saint? If she was simply a very nice lady, she was a better person than any of the OPC women on the forum. And she loved God so much that she ministered to Christ in every one of the least among men, according to Christ's words. If she doubted, she was no less than St. Thomas; a person who never doubts is not necessarily more faithful.

6,616 posted on 09/21/2010 6:21:04 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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