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So they give a knowing smile, and shrug their shoulders, and say, “Just because”...but you can see they think, “Because I’m the pretty one!” Pride.

Your analogy misconstrudes the doctrine of grace. If a person understands that nothing comes from us, including our faith, then you cannot have pride. Everything is given to us. How is it possible to have pride? What would you be prideful about? Everything is given.

That's the whole point in me asking you where your faith comes from. If I understand that faith comes from God, I can say I'm elect but that's it. I have to just shrug my shoulders and say, "I don't know why God would elect me but there must be a reason."

If you believe your faith comes from yourself, then you can say, "I'm elect because I have faith. Others are not elect because they do not have faith." The difference is because you choose to exercise your faith for whatever reason.

Now what seems to be the most prideful?

If I understand that faith comes from God, I can say I'm elect but that's it. I have to just shrug my shoulders and say, "I don't know why God would elect me but there must be a reason."

Now what seems to be the most prideful?

You make my point, thank you. The Calvinist believes what you just said - "I don't know why God would elect me but there must be a reason."

A knowing smile, and just enough politeness not to say, "I'm Daddy's favorite because I'm the pretty one."

The non-Calvinist says, "I am ugly. I deserve God's wrath, and I know it. I repent and beg forgiveness!"

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.' [I don't know why God would elect me but there must be a reason.] 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted." - Luke 18

Who does Jesus say had pride - the one who believed he was Daddy's favorite, even if he couldn't put his finger on why, or the one who knew he was a sinner and begged for mercy?

I didn't hear the term 'elect' for years after I converted. The difference between individual and corporate election is this:

Individual: "I don't know why God would elect me but there must be a reason."

Corporate: "...whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life".

I'm not one of the elect because God picked me as an individual and rejected other individuals, I'm part because God cast his nets wide, and said "whosoever". All of our experience is that if God picked me as an individual, I must be special. If God took me because his net was open to anyone, then I have nothing to boast of - I'm just a whosoever.

Since I was in the military, I'll use an analogy. Suppose the recruiter came to my house and said, "Mr Rogers, we want you - YOU - to be one of The Few, The Chosen!" That would make me special. But if anyone between 18 & 23 was allowed to join, I'm not special...just of age. I"m a whosoever, not a first round draft pick!

I'll also add this scripture: "40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls."

Yes, I know - it was Peter, so I'm obviously calling everyone to return to Rome! < / sarcasm > But notice what he said: "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." Sure sounds like he expected his listeners to make a decision, doesn't it.

There is no room for boasting in 'whosoever'. There is plenty of room for boasting in 'God picked me - not a group, but me as an individual - guess I'm just prettier than the rest!'

As a note, I've met Calvinists who didn't seem at all proud, so I know it isn't a universal affliction. But I am bewildered why Calvinists think others are proud, when it is the Calvinists who teach that "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated"...without ever realizing that was written over a thousand years after Jacob & Esau.

Corporate election, not individual. And as a side not, HarleyD has been serious & honest with me, and I do not believe his beliefs are rooted in pride. As I said, I have met humble Calvinists, and there is a reason the SEA requires agreement that Calvinists can be our brothers and sisters in Christ, even if we disagree.