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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I am simply talking about God's foreknowledge.

And you can't get to double predestination from there.

How do you presume to change this fact? You can't. What God foreknows will come to pass.

Knowing what choices I will make and making those choices for me are two different things.

The Calvinist knows that no man's will is "free." Men are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness, and that end has been declared by God from the beginning.

Yes, all is moot then. We are unwitting actors, reality is an illusion.

If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved. He's God. He gets what He wants.Then we have to assume He wanted humans to have free will. A side benefit of this is love is possible, and life has meaning, we have choices, our choices matter. Perhaps God created more than a cruel play.

Some are condemned and some are acquitted. Do you deny this is true?

I tend to reject the lawyer Calvin's courtroom analogies. Some go to heaven, some to hell. And God is a just judge.

4,672 posted on 09/14/2010 12:52:45 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
Knowing what choices I will make and making those choices for me are two different things.

Yes, they are. But that's not the question.

The question, for the umpteenth time, is how do you propose to change something that has already been foreseen as fact in the mind of God?

The fact that men do not live as if this were true does not negate its truth.

Men's destiny's are set, according to the mind of God. We don't know that final destiny, but God certainly does.

If we have been given faith in Jesus Christ, we can have a reasonable certainty that our eternal destiny will be alongside God in heaven with the rest of God's children, as Scripture teaches us.

Then we have to assume He wanted humans to have free will.

Meaningless. You cannot prove free will. You can't even show it to me. I say the good within you that you say is the result of your own free will is actually God within you.

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." -- Phil. 2:13

Those without God are left to their own carnal, fallen desires which will always prove offensive to God because "anything not of faith is sin."

"Some are condemned and some are acquitted. Do you deny this is true?"

I tend to reject the lawyer Calvin's courtroom analogies

That wasn't Calvin. It was Jesus.

" For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." -- Matthew 12:37

"Justified" is a forensic term. It means "made right in the eyes of the law." Acquitted of sin. Not guilty on account of another taking the punishment rightly due the sinner.

4,690 posted on 09/14/2010 1:20:14 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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