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To: bkaycee
Council of Orange; 529 AD

CANON 13. Concerning the restoration of free will. The freedom of will that was destroyed in the first man can be restored only by the grace of baptism, for what is lost can be returned only by the one who was able to give it. Hence the Truth itself declares: "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8:36).

Thank you. Roman Catholics conveniently forget about the Council of Orange and skip right over 1,000 years of theological understanding of God's predestination until they arrive at the Council of Trent, called and instituted to rebuke the reformation and its Scriptural teaching.

ALL CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN PREDESTINATION

... About the year 400, Augustine and Pelagius fought over this doctrine—and Pelagius was condemned as a heretic for his doctrine of free will.

Then at the Council of Orange in 529 AD, the Christians united to reject free will in favor of God’s sovereign grace.

And again in 855, the Council of Valence affirmed a double predestination.

During the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century, Martin Luther called the doctrine of predestination the cor ecclesia, the heart of the Church. Luther wrote more about predestination than did John Calvin, even though the term “Calvinism” was unfortunately applied to the doctrine. If one looks at the greatest theologians in the 2,000 years of Christian history—Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards—although these men disagree on other issues and are by no means infallible, all of them agree on this question of predestination.

“We confess a predestination of the elect to life, and a predestination of the wicked to death; that, in the election of those who are saved, the mercy of God precedes anything we do, and in the condemnation of those who will perish, evil merit precedes the righteous judgment of God.”

—Council of Valence, 855

“Predestination to Life is the everlasting Purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) He hath decreed by His counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom He hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honor.”

—Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England, 1563

St. Augustine (543-430)

“From all eternity God decreed all that should happen in time, and this He did freely and unalterably, consulting only His own wise and holy will.... The angels and men who are the subjects of God's predestination are clearly and irreversibly designated, and their number is unalterably fixed.”

—The Baptist Confession of 1689

More from the Council of Orange...

Canon 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).

Canon 18. That grace is not preceded by merit. Recompense is due to good works if they are performed; but grace, to which we have no claim, precedes them, to enable them to be done.


4,581 posted on 09/14/2010 10:22:08 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
" About the year 400, Augustine and Pelagius fought over this doctrine—and Pelagius was condemned as a heretic for his doctrine of free will.

Then at the Council of Orange in 529 AD, the Christians united to reject free will in favor of God’s sovereign grace.

Those are two extreme distortions of the outcomes. I'm not surprised. It is to be expected when you get your information from dubious anti-Catholic websites.

4,592 posted on 09/14/2010 10:53:16 AM PDT by Natural Law (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; bkaycee
Roman Catholics conveniently forget about the Council of Orange and skip right over 1,000 years of theological understanding of God's predestination until they arrive at the Council of Trent

You left out one essential detail: the Council of Orange was a local Council and therefore not binidng on the whole Church nor able to proclaim dogma.

4,647 posted on 09/14/2010 12:26:37 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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