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To: D-fendr
If he joins or leaves the Catholic church, does it matter in his salvation according to double predestination.

You're still looking at it from the wrong perspective. A child of God would most likely not join an apostate church. If he did, he would eventually leave it.

Most likely. With God, all things are possible.

I understand your repetitive questions. I can only tell you that you they are nonsensical. A child of God will want to seek out a place to worship God according to the Scriptures. A man who is not a child of God will either head in the wrong direction or not care about God at all.

Foreknowledge is not causal.

I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that if God has foreknown your eternal destination, how do you presume you can change it? At the moment of creation, God knew where you'd end up. Any alterations or changes of direction are all factored into God's omniscience.

What God knows is what is.

So you see, if you were to rid yourself of your "free will" myopia you would realize you just agreed that some men go to heaven and some men go to hell and those outcomes are set in stone and have been from the moment God created time and life.

So I'll ask you the same question you just asked me. "Is there *anything* he can do to change whether he is saved or doomed from the moment of his birth until the day he dies?"

Is there, if God already knows where that man will end up?

Horsehockey.

Tell it to God. Then tell us how you can change an outcome that you've already admitted God has foreseen as fact.

And "doomed" is not the Scriptural designation since "doomed" implies that an alternative result was desired by the man. The correct way to speak of these two difference courses is one man is acquitted of his sins and one man remains condemned in his sins.

And that acquittal is not "of him that runs or of him that wills, but of God who shows mercy."

4,507 posted on 09/14/2010 1:06:30 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Most likely. With God, all things are possible.

Possible that someone doomed from the womb will be saved even? And you still haven't answered the question or its followup.

I'm arguing that if God has foreknown your eternal destination, how do you presume you can change it?

Easy. My choices had consequences, changed things. God foreknew that. No contradiction.

you just agreed that some men go to heaven and some men go to hell and those outcomes are set in stone and have been from the moment God created time and life.

Omniscience, again, does not prove double predestination. You are having a problem discerning the difference between knowing and causing all man's free will choices.

And "doomed" is not the Scriptural designation since "doomed" implies that an alternative result was desired by the man. The correct way to speak of these two difference courses is one man is acquitted of his sins and one man remains condemned in his sins.

What does the fetus desire in the womb where he is doomed? What sin has the fetus committed to deserve to be born only for the fires of hell ?

Who projects this cruelty on their view of god?

4,517 posted on 09/14/2010 1:26:19 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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