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To: Mad Dawg
I am not arguing that "faith" or "belief" MAKES the Sacrament real or proves that it is real.

But one cannot ignore the fact that people can and do believe in that which is far from reality...(I cannot stress strong enough it is their belief)..and to them it is their reality no matter how another might argue or disprove what they are believing in is not reality. Belief might need a good descript at this juncture...because if one does not believe in whatever they have determined is reality...they simply and generally don't follow or practice that which is presented as real.

3,971 posted on 09/12/2010 5:57:23 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
But one cannot ignore the fact that people can and do believe in that which is far from reality

Obviously. Just ask any atheist about any religious belief!

3,972 posted on 09/12/2010 7:16:16 AM PDT by maryz
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To: caww
But one cannot ignore the fact that people can and do believe in that which is far from reality...(I cannot stress strong enough it is their belief)

Ab so LOOT ly!

Further, it is interesting to note which beliefs are verifiable and which not. For example, what we assert about the Eucharist is not directly verifiable. We would say we find corroborating evidence in the difference it makes in our lives, but that's all really 'belief', and will not stand up to analysis -- not before we die and the polls are closed.

But my belief that there's an architecturally interesting church on Lexington and 63rd in Manhattan is verifiable. You can show me wrong.

In the second case we can usually settle things by experiment. In the first, all we can do is look at the proposition and try to understand its relationship to other propositions with the hope that we will find some confirmation or, ahem, 'refudiation' in that process.

When somebody says, "God told me to do X," it's not exactly a conversation stopper, but the basic datum is unverifiable. Maybe God told him, maybe he's nuts, maybe a demon told him.

That calls for a very different sort of inquiry.

4,039 posted on 09/12/2010 2:36:20 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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