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To: Mad Dawg
As far as I know Jesus said nothing about faith at the last supper concerning the wine and bread....He simply said..”Do this is remembrance of me”. (Mark)

The cup represents the blood of Jesus, which in turn represents His poured out life. (His death)

He further states....” This is my blood of the New covenant which is poured out for many.” (Mark) Gods commitments to His people in the new covenant are possible only thru His death.

I think Jesus focused on these emblems of His “life poured out for many” because He knew men would forget the very price He paid for them personally...and why he emphasized to do this in “remembrance of me”.

Communion is a solemn moment where we DO pause and reflect on the fact it was our individual sins he took upon Himself...and for that we are not only grateful...but humbled that He determined we were worth that price as we observe Communion.

I find that if I were to think of this as somehow a transformation of those elements to Christ Himself somehow entering us then my focus would naturally go to the sense if or not that happened....so therefore that solemn moment becomes self focused rather than on what those elements actually represent for us by what Christ did in taking away our very own sins.

3,880 posted on 09/11/2010 4:48:35 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Two part answer:

I find that if I were to think of this as somehow a transformation of those elements to Christ Himself somehow entering us then my focus would naturally go to the sense if or not that happened....

I'm not entirely sure I understand. First "transformation" and "sense". We keep insisting there is not a perceptible change, not "sensible", that is, not able to be sensed by the senses. The change is apprehended sola fide. It is believed. So yes, if one's faith was troubled, I suppose one's focus might shift.

... so therefore that solemn moment becomes self focused rather than on what those elements actually represent for us by what Christ did in taking away our very own sins. Of course if the problem is a weak faith, then a loss of focus on God and a distraction with focus on oneself is almost to be expected, isn't it? Isn't it by grace and faith that our focus is drawn to God?

I can only report for myself that I am not 'troubled' with wondering if Jesus is there. You could almost say I'm too busy talking and listening to Him to worry about stuff like that. Does that make sense?

I would say that the Mass, while not a 'work' in the sense that I get brownie points, is still 'work' in another way. It is, you might say, an exercise of the presence of God. We hear the Word proclaimed and a sermon. We pray for the Church and the world, which is our godly duty. The Prayer of Consecration is a shorter or longer 'recollection' of all the God has done for us in Christ, and a response of praise, prayer, and petition. Then there is the Lord's prayer, "the Peace" in which we greet those around us, and communion itself. So it's a celebration of the nearness of God: In Bible, in prayer, in one another, in sacrament. And, especially in a larger church, even if there are hymns and music, there is time to be alone and 'interior' with God.

I guess I kinda like it.


Oh! After writing all of the above claptrap, I wonder if I misunderstood you. I guess I can only respond that we have a very rich sense of remembrance. "I remember so well it's almost as if He were with me again -- no, he IS with me!"

I've said enough. Fire away.

3,897 posted on 09/11/2010 6:14:23 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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