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To: D-fendr; Quix; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg

I understand your concerns and emphases especially when filtered through the Romanist lens of the Church. I’m NOT denying that God has instituted certain authority structures to restrain evil. The question is what are those structures and how do they interrelate?

Consider the 5th Commandment to honor your father and mother. Of all the authority structures God could have chose to restrain evil in his wisdom he chose that structure which is most decentralized. Perhaps it’s surprising that God did not command them to honor and obey Moses?

Reading the biblical narratives one should come away with the distinct feeling that centralized authority structures that overstep their rightful boundaries will necessarily lead to tyranny, not to mention subsequent history.

To me Romanism is a repeat of the errors of Old Israel thinking that a human convention is what defines God’s people. The Prophets were singular in their cries that the people needed realize that human conventions were not the thing in themselves but pointed to a greater reality.

Here’s what should strike you in counterpoint to your concerns. Despite Israel’s reliance on human convention they still fell into idolatry. The greater danger, ISTM, is that a heresy once incorporated into a society dedicated to human convention can never be reformed because of that convention.


3,830 posted on 09/11/2010 11:36:20 AM PDT by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: the_conscience

To me Romanism is a repeat of the errors of Old Israel thinking that a human convention is what defines God’s people. The Prophets were singular in their cries that the people needed realize that human conventions were not the thing in themselves but pointed to a greater reality.

Here’s what should strike you in counterpoint to your concerns. Despite Israel’s reliance on human convention they still fell into idolatry. The greater danger, ISTM, is that a heresy once incorporated into a society dedicated to human convention can never be reformed because of that convention.


ABSOLUTELY INDEED.


3,834 posted on 09/11/2010 11:40:15 AM PDT by Quix (PAPAL AGENT DESIGNATED: Resident Filth of non-Roman Catholics; RC AGENT DESIGNATED: "INSANE")
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To: the_conscience

If Christ had wished to decentralize the structure of his Church, he would have instituted it quite differently. Part of his wisdom is evidenced in that it still exists today.

The early heresies show the wisdom of the Church having authority. We would not have the basic statements of our faith, the creeds, without them.

Or we would have a multiplicity of faiths and doctrine, as has arisen outside the authority of the Church.


3,835 posted on 09/11/2010 11:45:05 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: the_conscience
Despite Israel’s reliance on human convention they still fell into idolatry.

You seem to be assuming that non-Catholic Churches aren't run by humans. I think that's an erroneous assumption.

3,838 posted on 09/11/2010 11:55:02 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: the_conscience
The Prophets were singular in their cries that the people needed realize that human conventions were not the thing in themselves but pointed to a greater reality.

The debate between North and South, rule by Davidian king vs. prophets, is a major theme in the OT. They even allied with enemies of each other and fought. Jerusalem was chosen in large measure because it was neutral ground.

These were theocracies. The proper mix of governance between prophet, king, country/city, temple/people was in constant argument.

But in the end, error and destruction came to both systems.

3,842 posted on 09/11/2010 12:02:16 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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