To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. " (Revelation 3:21)
So much for no works. :)
Think outside one aspect. As explained, works do not merit eternal life, even in part, contra Trent, as man is incapable of attaining to God's glory, and requires redeemed via God's atonement, but the faith that saves has its characteristics, as its object is the LORD.
Overall, overcoming the world, flesh and the devil is a characteristic of saving faith, (1Cor. 2:15-17; 5:4) as is having virtues those of their beatitudes.
I thought Christ overcame (and will overcome—again?) the devil already by his resurrection (and his second coming). Now you are saying we have to overcome him too? :)
He did, and Jesus sheep hear His voice and follow Him, and to them He gives eternal life. (JN. 10:27,28) However, unlike Jesus who was worthy of eternal life, overcoming is not revealed as perfection, but an overall characteristic of righteousness due to faith in Him, and repentance when convicted in heart of doing contrary to it.
It was the devil who presumed to “climb up some other way” in self-willed selfish exaltation, and being cast down he breathes out vengeance, from the beginning falsely accusing God of selfish motives
God doesn't need the devil to show his selfish motives. He is doing it himself throughout the Old Testament. After all, isn't everything made for God and his good pleasure? Doesn't he say so?
More reiterations in response to my answers that countered such charges with reason. The good pleasure of God is not making man an automaton but a sentiment creature who can choose to respond, which is made effectual by having to choose between two opposing realities, with God giving good thing and good laws, and with the choice for the negative still being met with mercy, but obstinacy resulting in damnation, while those who choose the light are those who characterized by giving God worship and service which He manifestly does not need, and are given eternal life on His expense, and eternal bliss, then God can hardly be said to be selfish. Which is why the Bible must be taken out of context by forced into constructs by unreasonable souls manifesting unrelenting wrath against him, as popular atheistic authors today.
It is laughable that an angel gone viral can compete with God without God's permission or will. That's why Judaism has no devil. That is exists in Christianity has to do with Zoroastrian influence on apocalyptic Jews, of which Jesus was one by all accounts.
And why this scenario? Who said the devil operates outside the will of God, unless you suppose that God cannot allow something He does not constrain. Your reactions toward my response are quite predictable by now, and certainly God know what the devil is going to do by nature let alone foreknowledge. And constraining God into fitting within what you suppose He must do is presumptuous.
Isn't it the same God who says "my name is jealous"? Isn't he who throws fits and commits genocide on a biblical scale (no pun intended) because some people (who were not even Jews) worshiped "idols"?
Yes, and i am sure someone must have explained this to you, but perhaps it did not satisfy. Do you really think what is meant is some sort of insecure selfish jealously? Or considering that God needs nothing, and that His expressed into was to make them the head, and not the tail, being superior in every way and to be blessing to the world, and the context is that of following false gods which would result in their immorality and becoming the opposite — all of which appears to be locked out of consideration — then perhaps it could be allowed that jealously can be part of covenantal commitment (which they agreed to), like a marriage, but in which God required their devotion for their own good. Even a coach could be selflessly grieved and moved to ardor, out of love for what is right and for the team, by teammates “infidelity” in conspiring to throw a game, and this was no game
And why are you spouting Genesis 3? The serpent in Judaism is not the Satan of Christian dualists. Satan comes back in the OT as a loyal servant of God, a son of God in fact, like the rest of the angels, that he was meant to be. The Christians, of course, then go back and dig up verses and reinterpret them to show otherwise. The idea that Satan fell from grace is not Judaism found in the OT. Jews, logically, don't believe that an angel can rebel against God (given that angels were created as obligate servants of his).
As itit mus't be allowed if it is from a Christians, Jews are invoked, some who suppose the serpent in Genesis was evil inclination (Yetzer HaRa), Satan, or the Angel of Death or perhaps a phallic symbol. And in that sober source, the Babylonian Talmud Rabbi Levi asserts that "everything Satan does is for the sake of heaven." When another rabbi preached a similar idea in his town, it is said that Satan himself came and "kissed his knees." As for their alleged Zoroaster connection, verses in the OT which support the Christian idea are themselves surmised to be from Zoroastrianism, or denied that the can apply to a being turning bad. But contrary to you how the devil would like it, as seen the Old Testament the devil is revealed as being opposed by nature and by will to God, serving God's purposes but not as one seeking to please Him.
What we do have is satan being part of the angelic class, which the NT affirms, but rather than being a “loyal servant of God” as Singer has him, instead he is shown as one loyally in opposition to God. In Job 1 it is the devil who is disturbed by the faithfulness of Job which God pointed out to him, and similar to Gn. 3, he objects that this virtue is pure, but is because Job is blessed by God. (Job. 1:1-4) It is the devil then that challenges that if God was to take away such then Job will curse God, that no one is faithful to God within some kickback (so your argument has a precedent). God then assents to the devil's challenge, but places a restriction. (Job. 1:5-6) The devil then comes back and repeats his objection and challenge two more times, with God allowing him to afflict Job accordingly, with restrictions. (Job. 1:9-12; 2:3-11) Thus we see that in Gn. 3 the devil imputed false motives to God and did similarly to Job, and rather showing than the devil to be willingly obeying his Creator's instructions, as per Singer, it was the formers idea to afflict Job, with God assenting but with restrictions. No doubt you would object to this also.
All this did served the purposes of God, and as in Job, He can use the devils manifest desire to harm the people of God, in order for necessary chastening for their greater good, as in 2Sam. 24 with 1Chrn. 21:1 1Cor. 5.
The Jewish Encyclopedia also sees the devil “as the celestial prosecutor, who sees only iniquity, a view retained in Zech. 3:1-2” where Satan is again shown to be a an adversary of holy men, this time the high priest Joshua, and is rebuked by the Angel of the LORD. And they surmised that that 1Chronicles and perhaps Zechariah was influenced by Zoroastrianism.
But in the anything-goes Christian world, the devil is a "serious" treat and a "formidable" opponent to the almighty God. What a joke. Of course, the Christian God is a good God so all the evil things must be due to the "other guy." In Judaism God gives blessings on those hwo obey him and causes evil on those who disobey him. IN other words, he is everything, the good and the evil.
It is not anything-goes Christian world that is the problem, but sadly your anything-works polemics Kosta, in which you side with Catholic views if it serves your purpose against Prots, and Orthodox against Catholics, and Jews against Christians, while you reject everyone of them as regards the existence of God, with narrow-minded railings which ensure you maintain your stance.
And the world would be an infinitely better place the more people live according to the spirit of Christ
That may be true and valid if Christians were Jews. Judaism is about this world, Christianity is not. In the latter, this world is something we need to "overcome" for a better one that awaits the believers.
As regards what is best for the world, this is another unwarranted conclusion, as not only does the NT clearly place a premium on loving thy neighbor as thyself, and defining neighbor as universal, but the more the evangelical gospel has had sway the greater the social works, more than any i dare say in their respective environments. Again, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? " (1 John 4:20) "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, {16} And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? " (James 2:15-16) Jesus said follow Me, and He gave at the cross and He gave it His all.
It is still petty of God, who supposedly gives to the good and wicked and is nor respecter of men, to demand that people worship him and believe in him. If you give a free gift, it is unspeakably petty to brag about it in order to receive recognition and respect. Respect is earned, not bought or forced.
A man will not be convinced against his will. “It is still” that you seem to refuse to see anything but what you simply repeat. Certainly i can concur with your logic as a possibility, but continue to show you what you seem to refuse to see. Rather than “demand,” the call to worship God was after He provided warrant, and was greater in relation to light, and was what was realized to be best for them. Judgment came after truth and morality was continually spurned, including by heathen, and worked for others benefited. God appealed to men like Moses before calling them to service, and like Israel saw His hand work on their behalf, and Jesus did His miracle and called souls to follow, preaching righteousness, and warned of calamities on cites after they remained impenitent.
As for advertising, go to a country with a free cure to a disease that few think they have, and see if you can be unselfish in calling souls to see their need and come to you for it. Or must a captain be selfish or egotistical if he command obedience under fire, or in training? Jesus Himself often told souls to keep their healing under wraps at that time, while His command to preach the gospel is certainly not selfish, as if He was looking for worship, or respect for some ego, and in fact He said overall just the opposite would occur.
Sadly, your “wonder” is not even close to objectivity, but is like that of those wise-in-their-own-eyes souls who despise moral authority and speak evil of them
Sadly you seem to have run out of arguments and now must depend on characterizing and judging me.
No, i certainly have not run out of arguments, and have countered such attempts to characterized the almighty after the skewed reasoning of others, and as for characteristics, see below.
the omnipotent God, according to man, has been "fixing" this world ever since the first humans misbehaved on his omniscient watch by unleashing floods, plagues, genocide, prophesies, miracles, sacrificing himself on the cross, and what not and the world is as evil and wicked as ever. You call that "not even close to objectivity"?
Yes i do, as what is lacking is just that in analysis such. Rather than the purpose being “fixing” the world which could be done in a moment, God has placed man here with the capacity to make a mess out of a world that needed no fixing, by misusing the good things and disobeying the good laws the Creator provided, and man having done just that, and continually, God did enact just judgment, but always provided a way back for those who want light over darkness. The flood, plagues, the execution of idolaters and rebels, occurred after they continually choose just that, with the innocent being spared their eternal end, while God ever manifested His reality and finally manifested Himself in the flesh, which did not stop blind men from refusing Him, while those who do trust and obey are blessed, and the worlds is always better for it. As for being “evil and wicked as ever,” perhaps not ever, but evil, as foretold, but the alternative would find objections also, while as can be seen here, it is the war against God that causes such misery. Everything from AIDS to A bombs would be a thing of the past if the whole world followed Christ, and the eternal one will be populate by people who chose Christ over sin, and would not sin even if they could. Thank be to God.
How many covenants (all supposedly ever-lasting) did this man-made or man-imagned God make and remake?
They key is that the New is not according to the former, and we touched on this before,
Is he not driven to violence when someone doesn't worship him? Is he not moody and narcissistic?
No, he is not, as i have patently explained, but as with other issues, apparently no amount of substantiation, reason and objective analysis will do. This officially pro-God forum does not mean you need to be so yourself, but in my past and extensive dealing with you on this issue you it was like you cannot even allow anything contrary to your incessant vehement charges, even as a possibility, and when shown to be wrong you refuse to see it – as in father-daughter incest – and continuing with you only results in more of the same rage against the One who sits on high. I am sorry this is the case and i do not seek to facilitate it. Good night.
You have too much time? I guess you will continue to flood the bandwidth. I will not respond to another “book” of yours. You can find someone else to bore.