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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper
That would be narcissistic. That's why Orthodox and Catholics never think they have even come close. Unlike the Protestants, who adopt Jesus and "know" they have impressed God enough forever.

Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

We do not believe anyone impresses God with anything they do ...By His MERCY and GRACE

See we really do believe it is a gift and not wages earned.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

15,695 posted on 11/10/2010 9:32:14 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: RnMomof7; Forest Keeper
Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...We do not believe anyone impresses God with anything they do ...By His MERCY and GRACE...See we really do believe it is a gift and not wages earned

But Paul was "all things to all men" (1 Cor 9:22) and  aimed to "please all men in all things" (1 Cor 10:33) by his own admission, telling them what they wanted to hear as long as they acquiesced to his story. At other times, Paul says you have to confess "with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead" (Rom 10:9).

So, here you have to meet certain requirements (conditions) in order to be saved, hence it is not an "unmerited" gift. In other  situations, you may be an unbeliever as long as you are married to a believer and that's enough to save you!  So, here, again, we have a conditional salvation which doesn't qualify as a free gift.

In Romans 11:14 he says "if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them." Again, conditions have to be met, the requirement must be satisfied or nothing. No free gift.

Or what about this: "To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. (1 Cor 9:22) Here, Paul is not only implying that it is through his work that some are saved but that it is he who so, through his work, save them!

Then to the Ephesians (2:8) he changes the story and says they have been saved through grace and faith. However, in 1 Thess (2:16) he suggests that preaching (which is works) saves.  At other times he says God had saved the elect before the foundation of the world, so the rest was just going though the hoops so to say. A mixed message, at best.

But speaking of narcissistic, how narcissistic is it for a loving God to demand that the people he saves believe and worship him? And to condemn those who don't? Where is mercy in that? Protestantism is narcissistic because the Protestant God is narcissistic. So, at least in that there is consistency.

15,703 posted on 11/10/2010 1:29:09 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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