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To: blue-duncan; stfassisi; kosta50
If some one gives you something that you want and they know you will accept it and you do accept it do you do so of your own free will?

And they wanted it because...?

You have to walk it all the way back, determined each step of the way.

Determinism is the view that the future is completely determined by the past. Each action therefore conradicts the reality of free will choice - the past is unchangeable - choice is predetermined. Only the illusion of choice is possible. Determinism is the antithesis of free will choice.

In your formulation, once again, man, as self-conscious being capable of free choice, is removed from the equation.

The theological conclusions lead us away from Christ's teaching, His commandments and exhortations - and away from each human's personal responsibility.

15,621 posted on 11/06/2010 7:26:04 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed<i>However GodÂ’s predetermination and providence is nos alligamur)
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To: D-fendr

“If some one gives you something that you want and they know you want it will accept it and you do accept it do you do so of your own free will?”

I have added a phrase to make it a little clearer.


15,622 posted on 11/06/2010 7:30:40 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: D-fendr; blue-duncan; stfassisi
The theological conclusions lead us away from Christ's teaching, His commandments and exhortations - and away from each human's personal responsibility

Exactly. In the his on-line Catechism, arhcibishop Hilarion (Alfeyev) of the Russian orthodox Church, speaking of the Reformed minds, puts it this way

Denying free will in order to recognize God as the supreme puppet master of all of creation, by necessity excuses any human behavior, no matter how evil, as God's irresistible will, serving higher justice and purpose, thereby freeing individual human transgressors form any responsibility for their acts and, in fact, portray them as being necessary elements in carrying out God's plan.

With such thinking, Andrea Yates, a Christian who drowned her five children because "God told her to", is "saved," "just," "pure" and "holy" in God's eyes.

15,632 posted on 11/06/2010 11:25:03 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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