Since Christ is God try explaining why God who is perfection would penalize Himself to Himself?
The core of calvinism is that God made a mistake creating humans and satan and He needed to sacrifice Himself to Himself for reparation
stfassisi: Since Christ is God try explaining why God who is perfection would penalize Himself to Himself?
Is it possible Roman Catholics have departed so far from historic, orthodox Christianity that they don't understand to whom Christ paid the penalty for our sins???
Absolutely stunning. I can't even believe your church teaches this stuff. It's more likely RC apologists on this website simply refute anything spoken by anyone who's not a Roman Catholic just for the sake of disagreement.
Read the Roman Catholic New Advent website, stfassisi, and learn what your church teaches...
It cannot be questioned that this theory also contains a true principle. For it is founded on the express words of Scripture, and is supported by many of the greatest of the early Fathers and later theologians. But unfortunately, at first, and for a long period of theological history, this truth was somewhat obscured by a strange confusion, which would seem to have arisen from the natural tendency to take a figure too literally, and to apply it in details which were not contemplated by those who first made use of it. It must not be forgotten that the account of our deliverance from sin is set forth in figures. Conquest, captivity, and ransom are familiar facts of human history. Man, having yielded to the temptations of Satan, was like to one overcome in battle. Sin, again, is fitly likened to a state of slavery. And when man was set free by the shedding of Christ's precious Blood, this deliverance would naturally recall (even if it had not been so described in Scripture) the redemption of a captive by the payment of a ransom. But however useful and illuminating in their proper place, figures of this kind are perilous in the hands of those who press them too far, and forget that they are figures. This is what happened here. When a captive is ransomed the price is naturally paid to the conqueror by whom he is held in bondage. Hence, if this figure were taken and interpreted literally in all its details, it would seem that the price of man's ransom must be paid to Satan. The notion is certainly startling, if not revolting. Even if brave reasons pointed in this direction, we might well shrink from drawing the conclusion. And this is in fact so far from being the case that it seems hard to find any rational explanation of such a payment, or any right on which it could be founded... A debt to Divine justice has been incurred; and that debt must needs be paid. But man could not make this satisfaction for himself; the debt is something far greater than he can pay; and, moreover, all the service that he can offer to God is already due on other titles. The suggestion that some innocent man, or angel, might possibly pay the debt incurred by sinners is rejected, on the ground that in any case this would put the sinner under obligation to his deliverer, and he would thus become the servant of a mere creature. The only way in which the satisfaction could be made, and men could be set free from sin, was by the coming of a Redeemer who is both God and man. His death makes full satisfaction to the Divine Justice, for it is something greater than all the sins of all mankind... Sin is represented as a state of bondage or servitude, and fallen man is delivered by being redeemed, or bought with a price. "For you are bought with a great price" (1 Corinthians 6:20). "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; because thou wast slain, and hast redeemed to God, in thy blood" (Revelation 5:9). Looked at in this light, the Atonement appears as the deliverance from captivity by the payment of a ransom. This view is already developed in the second century. "The mighty Word and true Man reasonably redeeming us by His blood, gave Himself a ransom for those who had been brought into bondage. And since the Apostasy unjustly ruled over us, and, whereas we belonged by nature to God Almighty, alienated us against nature and made us his own disciples, the Word of God, being mighty in all things, and failing not in His justice, dealt justly even with the Apostasy itself, buying back from it the things which were His own" (Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses V, i)...
Do the colors and font size help you to understand what is being taught correctly here? Christ paid the ransom for our sins "to satisfy a debt to divine justice."
Every once and awhile Rome gets it right and STILL FR RC apologists get it wrong.
Actually it's even more pathetic than that, sfa. I was asically told by one FR Protestant recently that Satan kidnapped our ancestral parents and enslaved, mankind ever since, right under God's nose and on God's watch.
Poor God had no choice but to kill himself to satisfy the greedt devil and release the captives. It seem God simply could not come up with a less bloody solution!
Calvinists would argue that God actually wanted Satan to do that, and that eveyrhting happened according to God's plan and the whole Garden of Eden drama was concocted by God for his own glory.
There are as many theologies as there are Protestants, and each and every one of them claims to be right.