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To: kosta50
I want to explain the conflict here: Christ could not “take” our sins because then he would be guilty. That is incompatible with the belief that he died innocent of any wrongdoing. The Old Testament not only says that no one can “take” or be guilty of someon else’s sins (that the sons cannot be punished for their fathers’ sins, nor fathers for their sons’ sins), but that only the soul that sinneth shall die.

Interesting. Ezekial 18 says that they will not. Same with John 9. But Exodus 20 says that the Lord will punish the sons to the third and fourth generation. Deuteronomy 5 repeats Exodus 20. Deuteronomy 24 says not. Isaiah 14 says yes. Jeremiah 32 says yes as well.

Mixed bag here. However, the Faith says that you have your own sin and not those of your father and that is what I believe. But in terms of taking sin on Himself and away from us - atonement, we do have some evidence.

John 1: 28 This happened in Bethany across the Jordan, 20 where John was baptizing. 29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, 21 who takes away the sin of the world.

Notice the choice of words - Lamb of God - the sacrifice - who takes away the sins of the world - with that sacrifice.

15,390 posted on 11/01/2010 2:59:10 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr
Mixed bag here.

No kidding. Welcome to the wonderful world of God's word. I will supplement your list with one of my own, because I have compiled it some time ago.

Are we punished for the sins of others?

Yes! According to:  Genesis 9:21-25, 20:18, Exodus 20:5, 34:7, Deuteronomy 5:9, 23:2, 28:18, Numbers 14:18, 1 Samuel 3:12-13, 2 Samuel 12:14, 21:6-9, 1 Kings 2:33, 11:11-12, 21:29, 2 Kings 5:27
Isaiah 14:21, Jeremiah 16:10-11, 29:32, 32:18, and Zephaniah 1:8

No! According to:  Deuteronomy 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, Jeremiah 31:29-30, and
Ezekiel18:20

John 1: 28 This happened in Bethany across the Jordan, 20 where John was baptizing. 29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, 21 who takes away the sin of the world.

Bethany is not a place "across Jordan." There is not such place there. Some Bible versions call it Bethabara trying to salvage the damage. However, there is a suburb of Jerusalem by the name Bethany and it's not across Jordan. And, at least according to Mat 3:4-6 and mat 1:9 John baptized in the Jordan River.

I am sure there is a raitonalizaiton out there that shows there is no contradiction...I take everything John write with a grain of salt. More on the interpolated character of John's Gospel.

15,395 posted on 11/01/2010 5:29:34 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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