Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: daniel1212
I agree. Those statements seem to contradict their own definition. Don't forget that even though some individual Latin representatives may think Trent is the "first" (after all, they themselves are not infallible!) such declaration the practice shows that this is not so.

For example, the provisions of Trent infallibly—infallibly declaring that the Traditional Latin Mass cannot be altered in any way—were violated by the first succeeding pope, and a number of popes following him!

It makes you really wonder what kind of Clintonian lawyering this is when infallible prohibitions are really not infallible prohibitions at all! It's like trying to nail jello to the wall. Classically Pharisaical.

“the first [but far from unanimous (even if not necessary)], infallible and effectually promulgated pronouncement on the Canon, addressed to the Church Universal"

First, the voting itself doesn't have to be unanimous, but the declarations are binding to all. It's no different than our system of laws. Not everyone may vote for the law, but once the law is declared it ti binding to all who subject to it whether they supported it or not.

secondly, and more important issue is how this statement is read. If we presume that Trent was truly an Ecumenical Council (which it clearly wasn't), then it's proclamation regarding the canon was the first one of such (universal) gathering, as far as know, that specifically declares a canon of the universal (catholic) Church, including the Greeks, as well as any other group not in communion with the Vatican. (after all the Greek canon does not exactly match the Vatican canon, although the difference is very slight).

If you read ti that way, then it is the first such infallible proclamation of the canon, intended to be binding to all Christians, not only the Latin Church, and I have a feeling that's how those individuals read it.

15,379 posted on 11/01/2010 10:15:35 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15366 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50
"It makes you really wonder what kind of Clintonian lawyering this is when infallible prohibitions are really not infallible prohibitions at all! It's like trying to nail jello to the wall. Classically Pharisaical."

Well, she would not see this as being contrary to her claim not to change, and also understands unanimous consent to means something less than that. But i think looking more at the issue of 1 Esdras may show something else problematic, if confusing due to naming conventions. It appears that that Carthage affirmed the LXX 1 Esdras as part of the canon, while Trent rejected it. Below is a table i made taken from the information here, the best i understand it.

Source

Book (name changes)

Status

Book (name changes)

Status

Hebrew

Ezra/Nehemiah

Scripture

Early Septuagint (LXX)

2 Esdras (Esdras B'; Ezra/Nehemiah)

Scripture

1 Esdras (Esdras A'; First of Ezra; apocryphal additions to Ezra + Nehemiah)

Scripture

Hippo & Carthage

2 Esdras (Nehemiah/Nehemiah)

Scripture

1 Esdras (LXX 1 Esdras)

Scripture

Vulgate

1 Esdras (Ezra; replaces LXX 1 Esdras)

2 Esdras (Nehemiah)

Scripture

3 Esdras (LXX 1 Esdras)

4 Esdras (additional apocryphal book, formerly called 3 Esdras)

Scripture

Trent

1 Esdras (Ezra) (declares LXX 1 Esdras non-canonical)

2 Esdras (Nehemiah)

Scripture

4 Esdras (3 Esdras; LXX 1 Esdras)

non-canonical


15,405 posted on 11/01/2010 7:00:15 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15379 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson