Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: D-fendr
You can of course, and we do, the question is why you would come to Him for forgiveness if you truly believe He has already given it to you.

The difference between Ephesians 1:6-8 and 1 John 1:9 is that John is dealing with what we call “relational,” or “familial,” forgiveness—like that of a father and a son. For example, if a son does something wrong to his father—falling short of his expectations or rules—the son has hindered his fellowship with his father. He remains the son of his father, but the relationship suffers. Their fellowship will be hindered until the son admits to his father that he has done wrong. It works the same way with God; our fellowship with Him is hindered until we confess our sin. When we confess our sin to God, the fellowship is restored. This is relational forgiveness.

“Positional” forgiveness, or judicial forgiveness, is that which is obtained by every believer in Christ. In our position as members of the body of Christ, we have been forgiven of every sin we have ever committed or ever will commit. The price paid by Christ on the cross has satisfied God’s wrath against sin, and no further sacrifice or payment is necessary. When Jesus said, “It is finished,” He meant it. Our positional forgiveness was obtained then and there.

http://www.gotquestions.org/confession-forgiveness.html

15,250 posted on 10/29/2010 9:40:54 AM PDT by bkaycee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15242 | View Replies ]


To: bkaycee
Thanks for your reply.

It works the same way with God; our fellowship with Him is hindered until we confess our sin. When we confess our sin to God, the fellowship is restored. This is relational forgiveness.

That's confessing. Nothing in this about asking for forgiveness. Which, I believe you still say you already have, relational or otherwise, correct?

Or is there a forgiveness you don't have yet that you are asking for now?

15,257 posted on 10/29/2010 10:31:22 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15250 | View Replies ]

To: bkaycee; D-fendr
The difference between Ephesians 1:6-8 and 1 John 1:9 is that John is dealing with what we call “relational,” or “familial,” forgiveness—like that of a father and a son

That is one big fat rationalization, imo. 1 John 1:9 says in Greek:

But the doctrinally "corrected" (read corrupted) Protestant versions read

The "forgive" and "cleanse" is in subjunctive which can only be translated as may (a possibility, a conditional clause), so clearly the NIV and CEV translations are a blatant fraud.

The Greek texts expresses hope and not certainty, and as such 1 John 1:9 runs clearly against the very grain of Protestant superstition that all our sins, past, present and future are forgiven, so they had to invent this "relational" fairytale not to admit their error of thinking.

Likewise, Eph 1:6-8 says nothing about all sins, past, present and future, having been forgiven! It merely states (1:7) "in whom we have redemption,"; meaning in whom there is redemption to be found.

If God had forgiven all sins, past, present and future, then no matter what you do, did, or will do, can break the "fellowship" with him because in God's eyes the fellowship can't be broken!

If God forgave you everything then God is "blind" to your moral excesses against him; in other words, the "saved" can do no wrong in God's eyes. So the whole thing a pathetic rationalization apparently concocted through some very bad biblical scholarship (and corrupt translations) in order to give Protestants something to do on Sundays.

15,259 posted on 10/29/2010 11:00:55 AM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15250 | View Replies ]

To: bkaycee
Well put!!! Positional vs. relational is a good way to explain it. The problem some may have is when they then don't differentiate between imputed vs. infused righteousness.
15,276 posted on 10/29/2010 2:44:56 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15250 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson