Your question reveals a lack of understanding of the meaning of justification.
"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
It's the error of the Orthodox to believe men can be perfected into a sinless creature in this life. It doesn't happen. Christianity believes that while all human beings are fallen creatures who sin every day of their lives (as Paul reminds us,) some men have been acquitted of those sins by Christ taking on the punishment rightly due them. Therefore Christ is able to present those men to His Father, not as men who don't sin, but as men whose sins have been paid for by Christ on the cross.
That's how Christianity works. That's the plan of salvation God ordained and laid out in the Old Testament and brought to fruition at Calvary as told to us in the New Testament.
Christ, the propitiation for our sins.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." -- 1 Peter 2:24-25"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Do sheep continue to stray? Yep. But we have the assurance from God that Christ is always bring us back into the fold.
If men could become truly sinless, they would not need Christ to present them to God. But that is not what is required.
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever." -- Jude 1:24-25
"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight" -- Colossians 1:21-22 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Christ presents us to God "unblameable" because Christ has accepted the "blame" on our behalf and made restitution to God for our sins. Thus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, the only one who can reconcile our sins with the righteous judgment of God.
And then there is, of course, a specific message to the people of Thessaloniki that it is God's will that they be sanctified by staying away from sexual immorality, which is clearly sanctification accomplished by works!
Do RCs and EO believe in "substitutionary atonement" or is that a doctrine they discarded on the way to the Pelagianism they now practice?
Our sanctification is evidenced by the fruit of the Holy Spirit, the good work God accomplishes in us which we display in this life. Men continue to foolishly take credit for what God performs.
Here is a nice little recap for your pleasure...
R. C. Sproul Comments on the Difference Between Justification and Salvation
The basis for our justification is not sanctification. The sole basis for our justification is Christ and his holy life and his atoning death. However, our salvation includes all three aspects I mentioned earlier. That is, salvation is our justification, sanctification and our glorification. R.C. also mentions the ordo salutis. Roughly speaking, the ordo salutis is the logical and/or temporal order in which our salvation is unfolded. According to Reformed theology, this would be election, predestination, regeneration, conversion/repentance, justification, sanctification, and glorification. One of the major issues leading to the division between Roman Catholicism and the Protestant Reformation is the distinction between justification and sanctification. Justification and sanctification must always be distinguished from each other. Justification is our legal declaration of "not guilty" based on the substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross. Christ died for our sins to justify us before God in the final judgment. It is outside of us and is an objective fact based on what Christ completed for us by meriting eternal life for us in his perfect obedience on earth and by dying in our place for our sins on the cross. Roman Catholicism committed the error of confusing sanctification, which is an inherent process inside our souls where we are made more and more like Christ as we live a Christian life, with justification. The Roman Catholics can never be sure they are saved because they base their salvation on obedience rather than on justification by faith alone. For Roman Catholics justification is inherent in the soul and the sinner is made actually righteous. This flies in the face of Romans 7 where Paul clearly says that we remain sinners even after we have been declared righteous and begin the process of living a sanctified life." (Charlie J. Ray) '...Justification is a legal or forensic declaration of not guilty and the merits of Christ's perfect life are credited to us. Christ suffers in our place on the cross and bears all the penalty for our sins in the past, in the present, and in the future. This substitutionary atonement satisfies God's law, the just penalty of the law, and removes our guilt.
Very nice explanation DR. E. thnk you.
Though Christian s do accept Christs finished work at Calvary for them....I think part of the problem rests in accepting they are truly forgiven.
An individual who has done some awful dasdardly things seems to understand forgiveness better than those who have an attitutde their sins weren’t THAT bad, which feeds on ones ego. Believing that ALL sin is equally offensive to God and would require the same sacrifice of Christ, regardless of the depth of that sin, is hard for some to accept...therefore their “good works” continue being sufficient for them and that “little sin” was taken care of on Calvary.
I am finding it hard to phrase this but I have seen and heard this attitude by some.
Why? The Orthodox and Catho;ics believe Christ when he says: "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." [Mat 5:48] But I can see why the Protestants don't.
That's how Christianity works
By ignoring Jesus and glorifying Paul?
"that we, being dead to sins"-- 1 Peter 2:24
How can you be dead to sin when there is sin left inside everyone? So much so that God is working overtime re-sanctifying the "elect" all their lives, as you told me in your previous post?!?
Do sheep continue to stray? Yep. But we have the assurance from God that Christ is always bring us back into the fold.
Not according to Paul. I showed you that Paul says you will not make it to heaven if you continue to sin. It must be painful to see that, so much so that some might experience temporary blindness.
Do not be deceived; (neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God {1 Cor 6:9-10]
Combine this with the works-based sanctification preached by Paul for unbelievers who marry believers, and works-based abstention form immoral sex in return for sanctification (at least for Thessalonians), and you have a whole lotta works-based stuff pouring out form Pauline verses! What's up with that? That doesn't fit the Protestant tale one single bit.
Christ presents us to God "unblameable" because Christ has accepted the "blame" on our behalf and made restitution to God for our sins.
Then why is there a need to re-sanctify you all your life, as you claim?
Thus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, the only one who can reconcile our sins with the righteous judgment of God.
Well, given that he is that same God, why couldn't he just do it without all the blood and guts? Or is God under some sort of obligation?
Do RCs and EO believe in "substitutionary atonement" or is that a doctrine they discarded on the way to the Pelagianism they now practice?
I can't speak for the RCs, but the Orthodox don't. That theology is unknown to the original Church.
or is that a doctrine they discarded on the way to the Pelagianism they now practice?
LOL, they don't practice Plagiarism any more than Calvinists practice Christianity.
Here is a nice little recap for your pleasure...R. C. Sproul...
Who is Sproul and why should I believe him?
Do RCs and EO believe in "substitutionary atonement" or is that a doctrine they discarded on the way to the Pelagianism they now practice?
Actually, would'nt they be closer to semi-pelagianists?
Wounded, but still having the ability to choose correctly?