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To: MarkBsnr
Yes, let's put some different descriptions in for the two individuals.

Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a (A) and the other was a (B). The (A) took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this (B). I fast twice a week (I refrain from eating meat), I obey the commandments, I receive sacraments, I do good deeds, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' But the (B) stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you, (B) went home justified, not (A); for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

We have faith and hope of salvation BECAUSE of the Holy Scriptures that God has provided as the authority for our faith and hope. Trusting in what men say is not a foundation for faith or hope.

14,908 posted on 10/26/2010 7:06:39 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums
Yes, let's put some different descriptions in for the two individuals. Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a (A) and the other was a (B). The (A) took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this (B). I fast twice a week (I refrain from eating meat), I obey the commandments, I receive sacraments, I do good deeds, and I pay tithes on my whole income.' But the (B) stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.' I tell you, (B) went home justified, not (A); for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

That might be argued except for this: we get lambasted every day on the RF (correctly if I am wrong, by even such a person as yourself) because we do not and will not presume themselves saved. The double predestination crowd and the OSAS crowd excoriate the Catholics because they do not proclaim their own salvation. The double predestination and the OSAS crowd crow and leap in the air and PRAAAIIIISEEEEE JEEEZZUSSS because they ARE SAVED (tm).

No Catholic self determines salvation, in spite of the weird accusations. We are accused of personal salvation through the Church. Really? Then why do we refuse to get drawn into the cesspool of self declared personal salvation that so many Protestants wallow in?

No; the Mass repeatedly prays to God to forgive us so that we may live in the hope of salvation. We pray for mercy from God in multiple prayers at every Mass. The double predestination crowd and the OSAS crowd believes that they are already on the rolls for salvation, so why bother even pretending? If you are already saved and your salvation cannot be taken away, your example is worse than meaningless, because it is the practical opposite of what really is the situation.

14,911 posted on 10/26/2010 7:25:20 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: boatbums

Funny, the elect keep saying how they are the “ELECT” and the rest of us are just the rest of us. Mark’s version was more accurate.


14,923 posted on 10/26/2010 8:16:37 PM PDT by Jaded (Stumbling blocks ALL AROUND, some of them camouflaged well. My toes hurt, but I got past them.)
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