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To: kosta50
Now one thing about I give him credit for is honesty. He cuts through the chase and calls it as he sees it. Paul states clearly why he says what he says: "I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some."
But it seems he was doing it for himself: "Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
As for his martyrdom that's a fabric of a legenend or, as the Protestants would say, "man made tradition." There is no historical or any extrabiblical documentation of him ever getting martyred, as there is no documentation about any other apostle.

Certainly, Paul had a burden for "the lost". He would have probably been wearing you out with his preaching were he still here with us. ;o)

Paul did what he did because of love for the Lord and his fellow man. He did not want to see anyone condemned and even said he wished he could go to hell if it meant someone else would be saved from it. He disciplined himself so that no one could say he was a hypocrite and disregard his message. No, sorry, he was not in it for himself by any means. If that were true, he would have continued in his wealthy, privileged and snooty "religious" life because he was certainly doing just fine before his encounter with Jesus.

Finally, if you deny early church history about the fates of all the apostles and thousands of disciples because there is little extra-biblical documentation about them, then you must also deny everything else about the Christian faith. Oh...wait...you do. Doesn't matter, God demands faith to relate to him and some find that too much to ask.

12,652 posted on 10/18/2010 2:48:36 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums
The Paul we know was a zealot whether he was pursuing Christians or converts to Christ. He was also a confrontational and a controversial character.

I will not read his motives; he tells us pretty much what they are, and one thing that can never be denied about Paul is that he is pretty open and honest about things, so his intentions were not hidden it seems.

But he made it very clear that he will say, do and become anything in order to gain converts. Some can see it as a virtue, others as a vice.

Finally, if you deny early church history about the fates of all the apostles and thousands of disciples because there is little extra-biblical documentation about them, then you must also deny everything else about the Christian faith

You don't understand: not "little," there is nothing extra biblical about any of them. I don;t deny everything about the Christians faith. Obviously there are some early references to Christians and their practices form non-Chritsian sources, indirectly more than directly.

But as far as the apostles are concerned there is zilch. If you can find factual extra-biblical, extra-Christian mention of any of them I would be much obliged if you shared them with all.

12,777 posted on 10/18/2010 5:47:12 PM PDT by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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