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To: Mad Dawg
Yup. I find the whole "merits" analogy is sometimes a problem. But yup. I think if you're looking for some place to disagree, I'd suggest looking at the "blessed assurance" question.

Great, so believing protestants, who are saved by Grace(unmerited favor) alone, thru Faith (trust, reliance) alone, in Christ alone (His finished work), WILL be in heaven.

If that is what you believe, that is basically the biblical Gospel.

If we are accepted by Christ Thru Faith and not works, how can the RCC say we are lacking?

1,238 posted on 09/03/2010 8:34:14 AM PDT by bkaycee
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To: bkaycee
If we are accepted by Christ Thru Faith and not works, how can the RCC say we are lacking?

My latest hobby-horse is "esse v. plene esse" = being (essence, what-it-is) v FULL being (etc.)

Swallow hard and stipulate, just for as short a time as possible, that we teach the real deal, that our sacraments are efficacious, that the communion of the saints, including asking for their intercession and advice [and that of angels -- I have been under assault lately, the enemy decided to go for my body so against him I ask the help of God, AND of my angel and of Gabriel (my 'name in religion' is Dominic Gabriel, because both these "mighty men of God" -- one angelic, one human --seems to specialize in bringing glad tidings) and of Michael (patron of law enforcement officers and I was one briefly)], and all the rest ....

IF we were right about that stuff, then by holding back from us, one would be turning away from all these allegedly marvellous and powerful helps.

It is well-said that any landing you walk away from is a good landing, and by God's grace working through faith in both of us I look forward to making your better acquaintance in centuries to come.

But I grieve a little because I DO believe this stuff, and I think you are missing out on a lot of totally wonderful graces and helps and benefits and consolation and even on a certain intellectual and moral clarity -- or, at least, great helps towards that clarity ( certainly a great many Catholics despise those helps ... . )

THis may seem more kumbaya than the Church really is, and I AM a kumbaya kind of guy, I guess. But we DO teach that the ORDINARY was to become a member of "THE Church" is to be baptized. (that's why it is technically incorrect to refer to a baptized Christian who later becomes Catholic as a "convert.") But God is not confined to the ordinary.

I'm going to stop. I had a rough night and evidently it is showing up in involved syntax and verbosity. I hope my point is not thereby rendered completely opaque.

1,246 posted on 09/04/2010 8:36:11 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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