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To: RnMomof7

Even the Vatican and Pope say there are Christian churches besides the Catholic Church...I don’t know why Catholics keep saying this unless it’s left-overs from the past.

Once again it seems there are Catholics not in agreement with Rome.


10,577 posted on 10/12/2010 8:33:54 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww; Jaded; Judith Anne; Legatus; maryz; NYer; Salvation; Pyro7480; Coleus; narses; annalex; ...
Even the Vatican and Pope say there are Christian churches besides the Catholic Church...I don’t know why Catholics keep saying this unless it’s left-overs from the past.

The Catholic Church has NEVER suggested that there is more than one Church.

To say that there are more than one would mean that our Lord lied.

10,582 posted on 10/12/2010 8:57:21 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: caww
Even the Vatican and Pope say there are Christian churches besides the Catholic Church...I don’t know why Catholics keep saying this unless it’s left-overs from the past.

The Orthodox Churches are churches properly so called according to the Roman definition of the word "church". The term used for the Protestant denominations is "ecclesial communities". Here's the official explanation from the new Catechism, 838 is probably the relevant paragraph:

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324
But if you go up a bit further you'll find this:
Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
It's paragraphs 818 and 819 which drive us to drink sometimes.

837 talks about professing Catholics, 838 is primarily about the Orthodox... 818-819 is... hard. Where it talks about Churches we know it refers to the Orthodox and most Catholics don't have any trouble on that front. When it talks about "ecclesial communities" it's talking about Protestantism and ... well, the United States isn't the whole Church I suppose so when the Romans talk to a bunch of European Protestants they get all optimistic about things. Maybe if Ian Paisley were consulted they'd get a better idea of just what we're up against.

Nevertheless, that's what the Church teaches...

10,586 posted on 10/12/2010 9:11:00 AM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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