Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[Legatus]

However, I feel somewhat slighted in that you didn't think it was worthy of an answer when I asked you to list the people "raised to Heaven" during and after the time of Jesus.

In all of the chaos on the Divine Nature over the last two days a lot of things have slipped through the cracks and now I actually understand the question. I don't believe that when someone dies (when the body is separated from the soul) that God puts the soul into suspended animation until the end of the world.

If Our Lord descended into hell (or "the dead") to deliver the Gospel to the "Just of old" it seems a little weird that they would have been "woken up" for that and then knocked back out to await the general judgment. Sleep is a function of biology, not the soul.

Part of the problem is going to be how we experience time when we are separated from our bodies. Time seems to be primarily a condition of the material world, but in some sense it must exist on a spiritual level as well.

St. John was given a vision, was it real or merely a mental image? In the parable of "Dives and Lazarus" was Our Lord completely making up an existence for the dead or was He talking about a reality? Did God bring Elijah and Moses out of cold storage long enough for the Transfiguration and then put them back to sleep?

I think part of it goes back to what death means. Death is not the end, it's the separation of the body and the soul. The life of the body ceases but the life of the person continues. How and what does the soul experience without the faculties of the body? We are told the dead "sleep in Christ" but what does that mean, unconsciousness until the resurrection?

So if the question is "who is enjoying the Beatific Vision?" I the answer is all the saved who died loving God perfectly... I'm not John XXII after all. Certainly a lot more people than those "raised to the altars" of the Church.

[OLD REGGIE]

Bizarre to me how folks don't understand that "Catholic" means "Universal"; the one true Church founded by Jesus himself. I guess some don't read history or the Bible.

Where is that in the Bible you apparently know so well?

[Running On Empty]

“What is your witness?”

I live it as I see myself called by the Lord—and no one else.

No TRUE witness is ever “empty”.

And it is only the Lord who knows for sure what is true witness that is pleasing to Him. The ripple effect of all true witness is something no mere human can judge accurately.

“It will be a silent witness to you, not to Christ...”

How in the name of heaven can you know that?

Jesus tells us what we must be because what we are determines what we will do.

It’s best to think less about what we should do, and more about what we ought to be.

If I am called to be the type of “witness” Jesus asks of me, it’s because He who created me knows how I am made and what I can do best, with the help of His grace, to help bring about His Kingdom.

No one but the Lord is qualified to know what kind of witness He asks of me.

You ask many questions.

[1000 silverlings]

that's in all churches, PC, liberal versus conservative. If they don't preach biblical doctrine they run off the track. One thing though, we are free to ask questions and demand a biblical reason for the doctrine taught. Not all pastors have all the answers but what they preach has to have biblical support.

[Jaded]

"It will be a silent witness to you, not to Christ... '

Really? What is the witness of a governor who professes her faith yet her biggest supporter has made his fortune slaughtering the unborn?

What is the witness of a pastor who not only condones same sex marriage but is in one?

What is the witness of the baseball player who runs the local praise and worship yet, engages in illegal substance use and perjury?

These people will all tell you Christ is their saviour but their silent witness tells you something vastly different.

[D-fendr]

biblical reason for the doctrine taught.

And still end up with a wide range of doctrine. Does your church's biblical doctrine lean towards TULIP or towards free will or somewhere in between?

[D-fendr]

The theology that the dead are “sleeping” is a new one. It partly explains some’s problem with the Communion of the Saints.

[Legatus]

How will they know anything about Jesus Christ if all they do is observe you?

Oral Roberts
Pat Robertson
Jim Bakker
Jerry Falwell
Ernest Angley
Fulton Sheen
Kenneth Copeland
Creflo Dollar
Benny Hinn
Rex Humbard
Joyce Meyer
Mother Angelica
Joel Osteen
Rod Parsley
Peter Popoff
Jimmy Swaggart
Jack Van Impe
Robert Schuller
Billy Graham

Their spouses and their progeny...

America's preachers of the latter 20th century, rogues and heroes. Is their witness to Christ in their words primarily or in their lives? A lot of people can say the words and do more damage to the cause of Christ than if they'd never let the name of Jesus pass their lips.

Are we ALL called to nag people for Jesus? Is ANYONE called to nag people for Jesus?

[1000 silverlings]

that’s generally not in the mission statement, but such discussions can happen in bible study classes

[D-fendr]

So, for your church, General vs. Particular questions and various points of Calvinism and double predestination are up to the conscience of each member.

Would that be correct as you understand it?

[OLD REGGIE]

America's preachers of the latter 20th century, rogues and heroes. Is their witness to Christ in their words primarily or in their lives? A lot of people can say the words and do more damage to the cause of Christ than if they'd never let the name of Jesus pass their lips.

In fairness you should probably list the Catholic Bishops of the latter 20th century and ask the same question of them.

[Legatus]

In fairness you should probably list the Catholic Bishops of the latter 20th century and ask the same question of them.

They're on a separate list... I did include Mother Angelica and Abp. Sheen because I felt kind of rude putting Billy Graham on the list with so many complete dorks.

As for the American bishops... the floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.

[1000 silverlings]

No, biblical doctrine is biblical doctrine. Truth is truth. Truth is not subjective. If anyone lacks wisdom, they can ask God for some and keep on studying. It’s a lifetime job.

[Running On Empty]

Thanks.

[D-fendr]

Friend, every Baptist claims their doctrine is the biblical doctrine. But their doctrines disagree on key issues.

[1000 silverlings]

lol. Truth is truth and God’s Word is above all truth. Find me a man who understands God totally. Are you going to hold that all or some people have a complete understanding of everything, including God’s word? then no learning would ever take place. There’d be no need for the gifts of ministry now would there?

[Running On Empty]

Thanks.

About the nagging—NO. We are not called to be Nags For Jesus. :-)

[1000 silverlings]

The bible is our daily bread, all kinds of truth to be digested and understood in our spiritual growth. That’s why there’s milk for babies and meat for the adults. what you understood when you were a spiritual baby is not necessarily what you will understand as a spiritual adult, and why you can grow in wisdom and understanding, wonderful stuff, and why you need to keep studying, again it’s a lifetime job

[D-fendr]

What does that mean in the context of this discussion of differing doctrines? Are Calvinist Baptist correct or are Arminian Baptists correct? Or neither?

[D-fendr]

That’s why there’s milk for babies and meat for the adults.

Ah... Double predestination for babies; free will for adults. {^_^}