Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
It is an observation based on experience here. Catholics do not know how to rightly divide the word of God.
I do not blame them, that is a failure of their church
You are right , so dont waste your time trying to do it, spend it in the scriptures :)
Your beliefs are as amusing as they are invalid.
I am just repeating the error of the catholic posters..
It was said by the catholics here that Jesus selected Mary. In Scripture Jesus says clearly that it is the Father that predestinates..
If Catholics do not believe that and instead believe when one acts they all act ..then the expected outcome is that the Father and jesus also impregnated Mary, and that the Father also died on the cross..
If is sounds stupid it is, but that is the outcome of poor doctrine
You are right , so dont waste your time trying to do it, spend it in the scriptures :)
I believe that I have shown that we Catholics are far more intimately familiar with the Gospels than are the anti Catholics. And I do not try to insult people.
It was said by the catholics here that Jesus selected Mary. In Scripture Jesus says clearly that it is the Father that predestinates..
Try Luke 1, where it clearly says "God" and not One of the Trinity alone. Again, this is the Gospel of the Lord; perhaps the Reformed should read it.
If is sounds stupid it is, but that is the outcome of poor doctrine
Exactly. When one rejects the authority of the Church, one is liable to preach all manner of heresy including a complete mangling of the Trinitarian formula. No wonder the Muslims think that Christians are polytheists.
You do not even have faith there is a God, and you want to teach doctrine?
What does Jesus say, not what does an unbeliever say ?
John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me."
That is a willing agent of the Father speaking
John 17:8 "For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me."
Jhn 4:34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work.
Jhn 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Mat 26:39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."
Hbr 10:7 Then I said, 'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.'"
Hbr 10:9 then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.
I guess I do not understand if someone believes something why they would be afraid to share it.
People mock me all the time, and I could care less, because the truth is the truth
So please do tell us why Christ spoke in parables..
So the Catholics have false teaching? How interesting that you observe that ...where is the ground and pillar of truth in that false teaching?
I too am baffled at the gross lack of appreciation for the hierarchy of the revealed Word.
The entire revealed word must be viewed exclusively within the context of the actual Words of Christ Himself and these are found within the Synoptic Gospels. Every other verse must not be looked at as a stand alone revelation, but rather an amplification or clarification on what Christ said.
When viewed in this context the Paulian heresies espoused in this forum leap off of the page and reveal the authors to be something other than Christians.
Matthew 7:6
Isa 53:1 ¶ Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 ¶ He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Some people call this prophecy ...
Well Christ was crucified from the foundation of the world, so one would assume that God had already selected His mother
Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
You saw what was posted. The Reformed do not believe in the Word of God; they believe in surgically excised snippets of Paul and Isaiah, making mockery of both of them during the process.
When viewed in this context the Paulian heresies espoused in this forum leap off of the page and reveal the authors to be something other than Christians.
The Paulicians were declared heretics more than a millennium and a half ago. They are still heretics today.
Well you do a fine job of "not trying"..
What is clearly see on these threads is Catholics have no clue what the scriptures say or mean . They do not understand basic rues of good Hermeneutics
But Spiritual things are understood spiritually, the natural man can not understand them
Most of us were there once and understand how confusing it can be without spiritual insight
I ask again did the Father die on the cross? When you insist that all the trinity preforms the same action then that is what you get
And that is the basis of monotheism
LOL LOL..so we should believe someone that does not believe it himself .."a double minded person is unstable in all his ways "
How?
The Gospels are Old Testament in that they are written to show us the Divinity of Christ and that he kept the Ot law perfectly. The Nt does not begin until after the resurrection and the birth of the church
So although Jesus prophesied the New Covenant He lived and taught under the Old...
This really is an eye-roll moment.
I ask again did the Father die on the cross? When you insist that all the trinity preforms the same action then that is what you get
Amen! Roman Catholic apologists end up denying God's word time and again.
"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus." And yet Rome obliterates that blessed fact, and adds Mary and various dead men to Christ's singular, specific responsibility of mediating between the all-holy God and sinful men.
Person says who we are, nature says what we are. Nature is the source of action but nature doesn't act, the person acts based upon what is proper to the nature of the person. Each human person possesses a human nature, each Divine Person possesses the Divine Nature. Our natures are finite, God's Nature is infinite. "The one infinite nature is totally possessed by three distinct persons. Here we must be quite accurate: the three persons are distinct, but not separate; and they do not share the divine nature, but each possesses it totally."
"... We must not say three separate persons, but three distinct persons because although they are distinct - that is to say, no one of them is either of the others - yet they cannot be separated, for each is what he is by the total possession of the one same nature: apart from that one same nature, no one of the three persons could exist at all. And we must not use any phrase which suggests that the three persons share the Divine Nature. For we have seen that in the Infinite there is utter simplicity, there are no parts, therefore no possibility of sharing. The infinite Divine Nature can be possessed only in its totality."
And here is where it all starts to come together, if each Divine Person is entirely God, why can't we just go ahead and say we believe in three Gods?
"... what is meant by the parallel phrase, 'three men'. That would mean three distinct persons, each possessing a human nature. But note that, although their natures would be similar, each would have his own. The first man could not think with the second man's intellect, but only with his own; the second man could not love with the third's will, but only with his own. The phrase 'three men' would mean three distinct persons, each with his own separate human nature, his own separate equipment as man; the phrase 'three gods' would mean three distinct persons, each with his own separate Divine Nature, his own separate equipment as God. But in the Blessed Trinity, that is not so. The three Persons are God, not by possession of equal and similar natures, but by the possession of one single nature; they do in fact, what our three men could not do, know with the same intellect and love with the same will. They are three Persons, but they are not three God; they are One God."
Nature is the principle of operation, person does what nature allows. And all that leads us finally to the point:
"The operations of the Divine Nature upon the created universe and everything within it are the operations of the Three Divine Persons acting as one principle, not of any one or other of them. Creation from nothing, conservation in being, sanctification, answer to prayer - the work of God in these and all other matters is the work of the Blessed Trinity, the Three-in-One. There is no external operation of the Divine Nature which is the work of one Person as distinct from the others.
"Redemption was not a work in the Divine Nature, but in the human nature which the Son of God made His own; therefore no question arises about the title of Redeemer given to the Son alone, for He alone assumed a human nature and in that nature suffered and died for us. But Creation and Sanctification are definitely operations in the Divine Nature; they are definitely, therefore, the work of the Blessed Trinity and not of the Father alone or the Holy Spirit alone (as Redemption is of the Son alone)."
We must not confuse "appropriation" with reality, appropriation is for our understanding. When God acts, God acts because there are no parts to God. The reason I really didn't want to get into this and preferred to send you to Calvin is that none of this stands alone and every answer raises more questions and Civilization 5 came out last week and I'm kind of having caffeine spasms wanting to play it in every moment of my so called free time. That's wrong.
But do you see the point? Jesus Christ suffered in the flesh because He assumed a human nature and therefore it is easy to say that only the Son died on the cross. At the same time of course the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity chose Mary as His mother because that was an act of the Divine Nature and all external acts of the Divine Nature belong to the Three Persons of the Blessed Trinity, whole and undivided. Internal acts, generation, spiration, processions and missions are of course something else entirely.
Wow Catholics really hate Paul, the man God assigned to be the primary teacher to the NT church .
Perhaps it is because the catholic church is still an Old Testament church that they can not understand the New Covenant because like the jews they are blinded to it
I find it of special interest because it was the church fathers they quote so often that declared the works of Paul inspired canon, The infallible word of God..
So did the church error? How can that be??? LOL
Christ showed the prophetic nature of the OT, where every canonical book is Christocentric. He lived the life prophesied in the OT, He fulfilled all the types, He did what no man could do, He kept the OT law perfectly ..He opened the OT to the Jews.
The Epistle writers open the work of Christ on earth and revealed how He fulfilled the promises of the OT to jew and Gentile and what that meant to the sinner in need of a Savior.. They explained the person of Christ and the purpose of the cross in the atonement .
To demean any writer as "nuts" or somehow in error is to call in to question the entire word of God
Wow Catholics really hate Paul, the man God assigned to be the primary teacher to the NT church .
Perhaps it is because the catholic church is still an Old Testament church that they can not understand the New Covenant because like the jews they are blinded to it
I find it of special interest because it was the church fathers they quote so often that declared the works of Paul inspired canon, The infallible word of God..
So did the church error? How can that be??? LOL
Christ showed the prophetic nature of the OT, where every canonical book is Christocentric. He lived the life prophesied in the OT, He fulfilled all the types, He did what no man could do, He kept the OT law perfectly ..He opened the OT to the Jews.
The Epistle writers open the work of Christ on earth and revealed how He fulfilled the promises of the OT to jew and Gentile and what that meant to the sinner in need of a Savior.. They explained the person of Christ and the purpose of the cross in the atonement .
To demean any writer as "nuts" or somehow in error is to call in to question the entire word of God
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