Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[OLD REGGIE]

would that be the infant on Mary’s knee that the Catholics love so, or the real Jesus?

Do then you believe that the infant Jesus was not the same as the adult or the teen Jesus?

No, the helpless infant Jesus was not the same as the adult Jesus. He still had much to learn.

[Running On Empty]

I would say that He had much to EXPERIENCE-—but that He was not in need of learning, as being One of the Trinity, He is omniscient.

[1000 silverlings]

well then, how did “he grow in wisdom”

[wagglebee]

No, the helpless infant Jesus was not the same as the adult Jesus. He still had much to learn.

Who told you this? This sounds like some sort of convoluted heresy derived from Arianism and Nestorianism.

To say that our Lord "still had much to learn" when He was an infant denies His Divinity.

[OLD REGGIE]

"The conclusion of this study is that there are theological and liturgical reasons to hope that infants who die without baptism may be saved and brought into eternal happiness, even if there is not an explicit teaching on this question found in Revelation."

[Quix]

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Though I wouldn’t say that NOBODY is someone I could vouch for . . . not having interviewed EVERYONE! LOL.

[maryz]

Indeed Limbo was taught as IF it were doctrine to thousands of us ..and surely an unbaptized baby would go there ...so when you do away with limbo that means they would go to hell ...

Yes, Limbo was widely taught (as about .01% of teaching!); where you are getting "when you do away with Limbo that means they would go to hell" I have no idea, especially in view of your closing quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

[D-fendr]

I’m still confused on your position. Do you believe/hold double predestination as true?

[Jaded]

Some years ago, a friend who grew up Fundamentalist Baptist had been excommunicated from her church because she was engaged to a non-Baptist. They married and she joined a Southern Baptist church. When her youngest son was 5 it was discovered that he had a hole in his heart that would require surgery. At the time she was quite active in her church home. She asked the pastor if he would add her son to the weekly prayer list for a while because of his impending surgery. After a few weeks she noticed that his name had still not appeared on the list. She asked the pastor. He politely told her that since her 5 year old son was neither saved nor baptised that he would not add the boy to the public prayer list but he, himself would pray for the boy. As far as her church was concerned the child was not a christian and would not go to heaven if he passed away during treatment. She was devistated.

[RnMomof7]

Did Jesus die for all, or just the elect? If God irresistibly converts men, why doesn’t he convert all - unless he hates many apart from anything they have done?

Is God obliged to save all? Is God obliged to save any?

[1000 silverlings]

alright I’ll bite. Where does saving faith come from?

[Mad Dawg]

Done.

[Mr Rogers]

God had no obligation to save anyone. However, it was God who made salvation possible, and set the means - by grace, thru faith.

[maryz]

I did not mention baptism of desire or baptism of blood in connection with infants (though I believe the latter is applied to the babies killed in Herod's slaughter).

As to "Scripture does not teach any of this," I thought you were aware that the Catholic Church does not subscribe to the principal of sola scriptura (else we wouldn't have the doctrine of the Trinity either).

[Mr Rogers]

“Where does saving faith come from?”

According to scripture, from the person being saved.

[1000 silverlings]

and these verses are where now

[Legatus]

The party seems to have been moved to This thread after Christian_Capitalist was told to leave the thread.

I think we can finally do away with the idea that Protestants are united at least... unless Wesleyans don't qualify as Protestants?

[Mad Dawg]

That’s disgusting.

[RnMomof7]

I thought the Jews didn’t have anything like an actual canon (except for the Sadduccees accepting only the Torah) untl Yavneh (the form I prefer to Jamnia).

There was a canon from the time of Nehemiah, this canon is discussed in maccabees 2

Jesus himself divided the canon before Jamnia

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

[metmom]

There is no such thing as choosing to do evil (when evil refers to moral evil) because the so-called “choice” to do evil (in that sense) is a failure of choice, not its exercise.

Very interesting perspective.